Transcript of meeting between players and Unk on Saturday Feb 10, 2001:

This transcript is presented largely unedited: only irrelevant spam has
been deleted from it. The meeting itself lasted a little under one hour.

Unk says: Ok. Just a few words on the ground rules of the meeting.
Milanion grumbles.
Shamgar waves at Unk.
Unk says: I'd like to try to do the meeting like last time; ie: if you want
to say something, raise your hands, and I'll get to you when I can.
Shanker arrives.
Shanker thanks Midge.
Norbert hiccups.
Unk says: If you speak out of turn, I might get grumpy, and you don't want
that.
Unk grins mischievously.
Milanion fears!
Nala fears Unk!
Shanker gasps.
*Luggage doesn't want to lose his qps
*Norbert died
Unk says: Anyway, I asked players to input topics for discussion in
advance, and I didn't get any mail, so I think this will pretty much be a
free-for-all discussion.
Midge raises an eyebrow.
Milanion says: want some mail ?
Milanion grins wickedly.
Unk says: Midge?
Midge says: Result of quest meeting?
Milanion hmms.
Milanion nods.
Freya raises a hand.
Unk says: Galeck--I think you'd in the best position to answer this one.
Unk says: Or Freya. :-)
*Luggage will want to raise his hand in a bit
Unk grins at Freya.
Galeck says: go ahead Freya :)
Freya says: Yeah, Galeck posted on that in the adventurer's guild :)
Norbert leaves west.
Galeck says: I can summarize if you want me to :)
Midge says: Ok that's fine
Unk says: Ok. Luggage?
Luggage says: well - I think the results could have been worded better
*Milanion raises his hand.
Unk says: Yes?
Milanion says: since we now have E-level players (larger than life even!)
are there any plans in store for bigger monsters that give out more exp
(and more of a fight).
Luggage says: the idea the a select few will rate quests is not a bad thing
-- I think we just need to make sure the method is not questionable --
perhaps saying applications will be accepted and the most qualified n
people will be placed on the commitee would have been better
Milanion says: oops
Milanion snickers.
Galeck raises his hand.
Unk says: Well, we'll come to that in a bit.
Unk says: Galeck?
Luggage nods.
Milanion gives An instruction manual to Milanion.
Galeck says: oh... I was just going to respond to that, but if you're
coming back to it, I'll wait.
Unk says: No, I meant to Milanion's, sorry.
Galeck says: oh
Galeck says: ok
Unk says: Had lag. :-)
Galeck says: the decision was...
Luggage says: that wasn't aimed at me?
Milanion leaves west.
Galeck says: that the committee of 4 would get together and decide how many
would be accepted and what the criteria would be... we didn't want to
discuss it anymore in THAT meeting
Luggage nods.
Galeck says: so there WILL be criteria posted after the 4 of us get
together
Galeck says: that's all I have
Luggage says: I have no problems with such things -- the main thought is
that the selection should be sensible if others look over the applications
and have the criteria in mind
Luggage says: sounds good to me
Galeck says: sorry about the confusion
Xnvren arrives.
Nietzsche says: i am afraid i didn't understand the post, nor this
solution.  why are there 4, what exactly are they doing, does everyone's
view count, etc
Xnvren says: I'm milanion (for the log)
Shamgar hehs.
Galeck says: Unk's passed this meeting on to me as long as we're on this
topic so I can field questions
Galeck says: so here goes
Galeck says: we picked 4... 2 wizzes, and 2 players... that seemed most
interested at the time
Galeck says: we are going to decide who gets on the main committee that
discusses the new quest ratings system...
Galeck says: the 4 is just temporary until criteria is made
Galeck says: after that, the committee reviews EVERYONE'S opinions about
quests and ratings
Galeck says: so if someone feels that the rating for puzzle-solving is too
low, the review committee will look at that and decide if that is true
Galeck says: for example
Galeck says: that way we don't end up with ratings that are set in stone
Galeck says: such as the current monster-bashing *'s
*Luggage raises his hand
Galeck says: that's all I really have
Unk says: Luggage?
Nietzsche says: well i am rather concerned when a select group of "most
interested" is deciding things.  not that i don't trust them, but i fear
they might consist of hard-core questers.  i feel that would be bad since
it leaves out a good chunk of dr players
Nietzsche says: (I am also more horribly lagged than i remember at any time
in the last year)
Luggage says: so the committee is basically there to make sure things are
sane in the ratings?
Luggage says: make sure players aren't telling patent lies about how hard
or easy a quest is, etc.
Galeck says: yes. and to discuss possible changes.. and yes...
Luggage says: vs. thinking players don't have a clue ;)
Galeck says: to the second observation
Luggage nods.
Galeck says: right... we just didn't want people bashing areas based on
personal vendettas or frustration with quests or other things
Freya would like to respond to Nietzsche briefly.
Freya raises an eyebrow at Galeck.
Unk says: Freya?
Freya says: Nietzsche, we chose a small group of those who were most
interested in rating quests, the players on it by their own accounting are
far from the best questors on the game
*Nala raises a hand
Freya says: and we chose a small group to keep the length of discussion
time on this topic to a sane amount
Freya is done.
Unk says: Nala?
Nala says: be committee deciding/adjusting QP as well as informatione-type
ratings?
Galeck says: no
Nala nods.
Unk raises his hand.
Unk says: QP will still be decided by the game quality control team.
Galeck nods at Unk.
Nala says: OK - be there player input into that - or mayhaps
cross-fertilisatione of committrees?
Unk says: I think they'd also be permitted to express their own view on the
difficulty of the quest to whoever is chosen to rate quests.
Nietzsche raises his hand.
Unk says: I don't really think we can do player QC very easily: a lot of
that involves actual inspection of the code for the area.
Nala nods.
*Midge raise
Luggage nods.
Unk says: That all on this subtopic?
*Nala wants to add something
*Xnvren helps Midge raise his hand.
Unk says: Go ahead, Nala.
Unk says: I'll get back to the others in a moment.
Nala says: juste suggestione - quest rating committee maye uncovere
anomalies in QPs givene - mayhaps formale feedbacke to QC woulde bre
usefule
Unk says: I'm sure they'd be in a position to make comments to QC if
something was seen as grossly out of line.
Nala says: apologies for typo/parsing problems
Nala grins.
Nala nods.
Unk says: Nietzsche?
Nietzsche says: i had to leave at the start of the quest meeting
unfortunately, but i wanted to give smore thoughts if that is ok.  since
there doesn't seem to be a log anywhere, i have no idea if this stuff was
covered.
*Luggage has to run off...
Reflection waves at Luggage.
Luggage left the game.
Nietzsche says: mostly i wanted to comment that 1) everyone's view should
count equally.  and 2) only ppl who have solved a quest should be able to
rate it.  regarding 2) if you are stuck, you have no clue if you were just
dumb, or if it really is difficult, you are in no position to rate bashing
or funness because you don't know how much you missed.  done
Unk nods.
Unk says: I think Freya might post a log of the meeting, so that we can get
back to that later.
Nala agrees with Nietzsche.
Freya says: Ok, I have most of a log of the meeting, and I can patch it up
so people can look at it
Unk nods.
Galeck raises his hand regarding the log.
Unk says: Midge, I'll get back to you--Galeck?
Galeck says: sorry about not having a log... strange things happened over
here, and I COULDN'T make one... thank you, Freya, for your willingness to
take care of that :)
Galeck says: the log wasn't left out purposely, is my main point
Galeck says: that's all
Unk says: Ok. Midge, if your point hasn't been covered yet, fire away.
Midge says: QPs adjusted based on how often a quest is completed?
Unk says: That's one of the ways in which they're adjusted, yes. Also, we
tend to keep QP up higher on the quests we think are of the highest
quality.
Midge nods.
Unk says: As I see it, it seems to make sense to try to push players
towards doing what we think are the best things on Darker Realms. :-)
Unk says: ANyone else got questions on this topic?
Shanker shakes her head.
Xnvren says: afk
Unk says: Ok. I think then we can move back/forwards to Xnvren/Milanion's
question: could you repeat it for those who forgot?
Unk says: Oh. Duh.
Shanker puts large bean in the disk.
Unk says: Anyone else got things they're like to raise in the meantime?
Nala pokes Xnvren in the ribs.
Xnvren says: back
Xnvren hehs.
Xnvren says: sorry yall
Xnvren says: OK, my question:
Xnvren says: now that we have E level players, I would like to know if
there is any development towards bigger monsters
Xnvren says: with more exp and of course more firepower
Xnvren says: woah, its so quiet.... this is like the twilight zone... are
yall out there ?
Xnvren boggles at the concept.
Nala grins.
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
Unk says: Ok. Any wizard is free to create bigger monsters if they wish.
Giving extra experience would have to be carefully controlled by quality
control to avoid unbalancing the game.
Shanker says: Indeed
Xnvren says: like it isnt already
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
Unk says: So while you might get a few monsters which do that, you wouldn't
get many.
Xnvren nods.
Unk says: Well, okay, unbalancing it *more*.
Xnvren hehs.
Unk says: One thing which has been suggested is that wizards might wish to
create Eternal-only areas. Nobody has yet taken us up on that.
Nietzsche raises his hand.
Galeck raises his hand and winks at Unk.
Xnvren says: ask ulysses to, he -loves- to code rooms
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
Unk says: Nietzsche?
Nietzsche says: on the one hand, i think it is silly to only get 20k xp max
for killing, say doofus.  but then again, having monsters give 100K xp
would screw up the game
Unk nods and agrees with Nietzsche.
Nietzsche says: done
Xnvren says: not if it takes 30 min or more to kill it
Nala agrees with Xnvren.
Xnvren says: would keep the areas from being cleaned out by players
Xnvren says: and nietzsche
Xnvren grins.
Nietzsche says: another point on that:
Nietzsche says: only real high players can cope with those monsters,
accelerating their potential above normal players.  i think that would be
bad
*Nala raises a hand
Xnvren boggles at the concept.
Unk says: I see your point, Nietzsche.
Xnvren says: real high players are pretty much maxed out in their guilds
Shamgar raises his hand.
Xnvren says: they cant go any higher in power, only exp
Unk says: Galeck?
Galeck says: I just wanted to say that one of my 5 or 6 projects IS an
eternal only area, but it's just in the planning stages... I'd mentioned it
to Unk before, that's why I winked at him.  I assumed he just forgot about
it.
Xnvren hehs.
Xnvren cheers at Galeck.
Unk says: I know there are some ideas floating about like that. Just none
have opened yet.
*Xnvren raises his hand.
Unk says: Nala?
Nala says: art lots of monsters out of reache of lowere levele players -
whye be it differente for one whiche be onlye possible for eternal?
Galeck raises his hand regarding Nala's question.
Unk says: Galeck?
Unk says: (I'll get back to the others soon.)
Galeck says: one of the dangers of making large monsters is the potential
for smaller chars to 'bump' into them and die quickly... if we make an
eternal only area, the chances of that are greatly reduced, therefore
bigger and tougher monsters are more likely
Nala agrees with Galeck.
Shanker nods.
Unk nods at Galeck.
Nala says: yes ... yet then makes grouping withe eternals difficulte
Nala says: realise 'tis a probleme - certainlye do not wante to bump into
something unawares
Shanker says: The area would only be so big, there is plenty of area to
group with eternals.
Nala shivers.
Unk says: Hopefully, however, it would leave more 'normal' monsters for
mortals.
Nala nods.
Unk says: Spooling backwards -- I think Shamgar is next.
Nala says: woulde thou ban non-eternals - or onlye unaccompanied
non-eternals?
Nala says: sorrye
Shamgar says: I have to disagree with nietzsche there.  If that is true
then why do we have monsters like doofus?  Why doesn't everyone have to
advance by killing orcs?  I think I get where you are going, but when the
experience cost to advance increases exponentially at each level you /have/
to have bigger and tougher monsters worth more experience to attack or else
you end up hurting ht eplayers who are advancing.  You get to a point where
it's just not worth even logging your top players on anymore because
getting your next level will take you too long with the amount of
experience that's available.  You just have to make sure that those bigger
tougher monsters with more experience are too tough for lower level players
where it would make things to easy for them advancement-wise. 
(Cost/benefit)  And as unk said, it has the added benefit of leaving more
monsters for the rest of us.
Shamgar hehs.
Shamgar says: fear me
Shamgar snickers.
Shamgar says: done
Unk says: My response to that is that I think extra-exp monsters have to be
the exception rather than the rule.
Nietzsche says: well, we don't want to have dozens of players at E37
either...
Nietzsche says: otherwise we have to make new challenges for them...
Xnvren shrugs.
Unk says: If people get to E37, then we have problems, because they're
shortly going to overflow the maximum eternal score.
Unk throws his head back and cackles with glee.
Xnvren hehs.
Nala grins.
Nala says: move to QP onlye advancemente
Shamgar hehs.
Xnvren acks.
Nietzsche raises his hand again.
Nala giggles and pokes Xnvren in the ribs.
Xnvren hehs.
Nala says: at lev 37 that be
Unk says: Xnvren?
Xnvren says: ok, this one is about the top players list
Unk says: Nietzsche--was your hand-raise on the current topic?
Xnvren says: is there any way we can have an active player only top players
list?  Inactive players are removed until they log back on again
Unk says: If so, I'll ask Xnvren to hold off for a moment.
Messiah raises a hand or something.
Xnvren says: keeps it fresher I think, and even easier to make
Nala teases Xnvren.
Xnvren tackles Nala.
Xnvren grins.
Nala ruffles Xnvren's hair.
Xnvren says: why do my questions always bring silence ?
Xnvren snickers.
Shanker says: I couldn't agree more.
Shanker says: I didn't play for 6 years and was on the list.
Unk says: That's a possibility. It hadn't been suggested to me before, but
it's something I'd be willing to consider.
Xnvren nods at Shanker.
Xnvren thanks Unk.
Shanker nods.
Nietzsche says: sorry was lagged. what topic were you referring?
Nietzsche says: yes it was
Nietzsche says: like any RPG with xp, you always have a problem making the
game work for all levels.  it is extremely difficult to make a system that
works for newbies and gods.  our current system does as well as can be
expected for retaining interest at all levels of concern, so my advice is
to leave it alone.
Nietzsche says: done
Unk says: Messiah?
Xnvren says: man... that WAS lag
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
Messiah says: i'm not sure whether to consider this a comment or question,
but the area i have is typically considered to have tough monsters...yet
eternals don't hit it because of easier kills available.  will you eternals
hit a more eternal oriented area or is it just talk?
Xnvren says: thats where the exp problem comes in
Nietzsche says: btw, god meant real high player, not real god :)
Xnvren says: I get the same ammount for wimpy bahamut as I do for your dark
knights
Xnvren says: or close to it
Messiah says: yup
Unk nods.
Unk says: Some of the older areas do give out too much experience.
Xnvren says: and with time on game being considered for the top players
list
Unk says: However, it has to be said that we don't want to downgrade them
too much as it would annoy a lot of the players.
Shanker says: I hit Messiah when the closer to town stuff is already dead,
and they almost usually are.
Xnvren says: it becomes an issue... how FAST can I earn the exp needed to
catch so and so?
*Nala raises a hand
Unk says: Xnvren, the input of age in the player list is *tiny*.
Xnvren says: ok
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
*Nala cancels that hand
Nala grins.
Unk says: Messiah--if I can just answer you:
Messiah says: sure
Unk says: The eternals I've spoken to (I think it's about three) have told
me that it's not the difficulty of monsters that keeps them out of that
area, it's the fact that they think they might die in there. :-)
Xnvren laughs out loud.
Messiah laughs.
Nala grins.
Messiah says: die from what?
Xnvren says: I got my armor dusted by those aliens today
Xnvren says: was about to send you a bill
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
Xnvren pokes Messiah in the ribs.
Xnvren grins.
Messiah ponders the situation.
Unk says: Which brings up an idea I had once before, and don't think ever
had greatly discussed.
Messiah says: i try to make my monsters do more than just 'hp' damage
Galeck oohs.
Xnvren nods.
Xnvren says: I noticed
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
Galeck fears Unk's ideas.
Messiah says: make them more than 1 dimensinoal
Messiah says: dimensional
Shanker says: indeed
Messiah says: in my opinion
Unk says: I once considered the possibility that there should be a maximum
experience loss for dying (say, 5 million experience) to reduce the manner
in which super-high-level players have to minimize the risk of dying.
Messiah says: once you are equipped, most players are DONE
Xnvren says: Ah yes...
Xnvren nods.
Xnvren says: Milanion has lost tens of millions of exp due to the current
system
Unk says: I don't know if anyone might have comments on that idea.
Shanker says: I just died the other day, lost about 6 mil
Nietzsche raises his hand.
Unk says: Nietzsche?
Messiah raises someones hand.
Xnvren hehs.
Nietzsche says: i would not be in favor of that.  it would make my hard
learned lessons meaningless
Nietzsche grins.
Shanker shrugs.
Nala agrees with Nietzsche.
Xnvren snickers.
Freya holds up a sign indicating that the log is in a mostly cleaned up
form now.
Unk says: Messiah?
Messiah says: i agree with nietzsche.
*Nala raises a hand
Unk says: Nala?
Shamgar raises his hand.
Nala says: mayhaps compromise betwixt Unk and Nietzsche
Nala says: sliding scale yet nay max xp loss
Xnvren says: how about losing ALL your exp when you die?
Nala grins and pokes Xnvren in the ribs.
Xnvren grins.
Unk says: Shamgar?
Galeck ducks out of Shamgar's way.
Nietzsche says: heh.  ask for lucifer's opinion on that nala.  last i
heard, he wants you to lose it all
Reflection wonders about a toggle either way, choice between different
types of play.
Nala nods and sighs.
Xnvren says: oh!
Nala says: I miss Lucifer
Shamgar says: I would be in favor of it.  I think it kind of puts a damper
on exploring for a lot of people.  Capping experience loss would still
allow for plenty of hard learned experiences w/out making people overly
frustrated when they get killed for being adventourus
*Xnvren raises his hand.
Reflection agrees with Nala.
Shamgar says: not nearly enough of the game gets played now
Shamgar says: this might encourage more exploring.
Shamgar grins at Galeck.
Shamgar says: See, less time I have to type the less long winded I am.
Shamgar grins evilly.
Unk says: Xnvren?
Messiah raises a foot.
Shanker chuckles.
Xnvren says: never mind, would never work
Nala ponders the situation.
Xnvren says: it was about getting more exp for fighting in brave mode
Xnvren says: but since you can toggle it at any time it would be silly
Shanker nods.
*Nala has an idea
Nietzsche raises his hand.
Unk says: Nala?
Unk says: (If that was meant to be you raising your hand, at least. :-)
Shamgar hehs.
Shanker points at Shamgar.
Nala says: how about an extensione to toure boothe idea - yet selfe-guided
tours.  Buye ticket - mayst explore area unmolested - mayhaps evene trye to
slaye etc yet not get xp whilste on toure - or lose xp if expire
Unk says: There would certainly be some point to extending the tour booth
idea.
Unk says: It's underused as it is.
Nala says: be goode thoughe
Unk says: For all who care, Freya's log of the meeting on quests can be
seen at:
Unk says: http://dr.nostrum.com/dark/log/meeting-on-quests
Nala thanks Freya.
Freya says: I apologize I didn't get the very first bit of it
Xnvren says: it must be a mile long
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
Freya says: and for any oddities like the input lines for me emoting, etc.
Unk says: Messiah, I'll get back to your point now.
Nietzsche stretches his hand even higher.
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
Unk says: After that, Nietzsche.
Nala tickles Nietzsche.
Messiah says: i explore only when forced too (ok, i don't explore
period)...exp isn't an issue with me.  questions for the players: why do
y'all explore?  what inspires you to take the time to learn an area versus
wait for an area to reset?
Xnvren says: ooh!
*Nala has an answer
Xnvren says: quest points being the number one reason
Messiah says: besides that
Xnvren says: and finding new gear
Messiah says: including that
Messiah says: i mean
*Nala has another answer, whilst agreeing with Xnvren
Shanker says: qps and finding gear and new monsters
Xnvren says: big time, found some rockin new stuff in unk's area
Shanker says: when bored of the same old, branching out, it's cyclical for
me
Xnvren says: used to avoid it like the plague
Nala says: learning how to get bettere equipped - and seeing cool stuffe
Shamgar raises his hand.
Nala says: and avoiding boredome
Xnvren says: when there are ALOT of people on, gear tends to dissapear
Nala agrees with Xnvren.
Xnvren says: if you know some secluded spots you can always count on being
equipped
Galeck raises his hand regarding exploring.
Unk nods and thinks we're starting to see the effects of the increasing
player base.
Emrys quotes: "because it's there"
Emrys hehs.
Nala says: need big cycle of areas to catche regens woithout hanging
arounde
Xnvren says: because going back to messiah's point, some people dont like
to explore
Shamgar kicks Emrys.
Xnvren grins.
Midge nods.
Freya nods at Unk.
Shamgar puts his hand down.
Unk says: While we're on this topic, I'll take Galeck first (Sorry,
Nietzsche).
Nala says: and because there's some realluye cool stuffe out there
Xnvren says: one other small point was to find new weapons
Xnvren says: when Emrys made the announcemtn
Norbert arrives.
Galeck says: I am RIGHT NOW as we are at this meeting building a travel
agency for both old and newland that will have the availability of
brochures for new and underused areas, or just anything a wizard wants to
advertise as far as exploration
Norbert looks drunk.
Xnvren says: been looking for the scimitar of shadows for over a month now
Xnvren fumes.
Shanker pats Xnvren on the head.
Nala thanks Galeck, flips head over heels and bounces around.
Xnvren cheers at Galeck.
Galeck says: so keep your eyes open for that
Galeck says: and wizards, start planning brochures :)
Unk says: Getting finally back to Nietzsche....:-)
Galeck says: ask me about it later, if you're interested, wizards
Nietzsche says: i was simply going to say that most anyone can explore
safely if they have acquired enough xp for it to matter.  invisible, using
a horse, etc.  there are lots of safe ways to explore.  heck, my alchemist
randomly teleports to explore
Norbert looks drunk.
Xnvren agrees with Nietzsche.
Nala says: thing be - exploring matters a lot when thou art muche lowere
levele than that
Xnvren says: or just using a dummy character
Messiah raises Norbert.
Xnvren laughs out loud.
*Norbert died
Unk says: Well, one of my exploration rules is: remember you can always
'quit'.
Nietzsche says: what i meant was anyone who has acquired the xp will have
learned how to explore safely.  ask me, i'll explain how to do it. :)
Nala says: minde thou - dying matters less
Nala grins.
Xnvren hehs.
Unk says: (Yes, I do play as a mortal, sometimes.)
Xnvren says: who ?
Xnvren grins evilly.
Messiah says: Knu
Galeck says: I think Unk is Zoltomar, but I'm not sure.
Xnvren throws his head back and cackles.
Norbert seems to fall, but takes a step and recovers.
*Norbert is really heidi klum
Unk says: I'll just say it's a secret.
Xnvren snickers.
Norbert seems to fall, but takes a step and recovers.
Unk says: Messiah?
Nala says: his language shalt expose him - one daye
Nala grins.
Norbert hiccups.
Xnvren hehs.
Norbert seems to fall, but takes a step and recovers.
Messiah says: yes, what if to aid in exploring (and i agree with unk's quit
approach) the player has an opportunity to start exploring from the pub in
that area?  as in, take a player to the pub and they can map out on their
own if they so desire.
Messiah says: then they have a point of reference to heal from
Norbert looks drunk.
Unk says: Well, it makes sense for players to locate a pub first thing. :-)
Xnvren says: yeah... take them to Kiz's pub
Xnvren laughs out loud.
Unk says: And a shop.
Nala says: probleme be - also need to knowe how to get to area in firste
place
Norbert hiccups.
*Norbert raise hand
Unk says: That issue is actually being addressed amongst the admin
currently.
Galeck raises his hand about this again.
Unk says: Norbert?
Galeck withdraws his hand.
Norbert looks drunk.
Norbert says: i think a map of not the areas but a map of areas would be
nice to see what is out there
Unk nods.
Unk says: We're working on ways to make it more obvious what *is* out
there.
Unk says: Anyone else have something to say on this topic?
Shanker shakes her head.
Norbert burps.
Unk says: Anyone got anything else they'd like to bring up?
Norbert burps.
Unk smiles.
Xnvren hehs.
Shanker says: IDoes anyone mind if I head out and do some questing/killing?
Unk says: No, I think we'll just call the meeting as over.
Nala shakes her head.
Xnvren nods.
Shanker nods.
Nietzsche rejoined the game.
Nala nods.
Messiah waves.
Unk says: I'll probably call another meeting in 6 weeks or so; see if
anyone has any good new ideas now.
Nala grins.
Unk says: Err, by then. :-)
Shanker says: Enjoyed this, thakns for doing it.
Messiah returns back to the front.
Xnvren nods.