[Logged by Emrys]
This room looks as if it hosted a wild celebration. The floor is covered with
crumbs, popped balloons, torn streamers, empty beer bottles, and large puddles
of water. There is a thin layer of confetti covering everything, and in a few
places you even see some soot. Two large, broken speakers dominate one end of
the room. What a mess!
The only obvious exit is west.
Shamgar flies in as a blue-banded hawk and shimmers into his natural form.
Nietzsche arrives with an ear-splitting bang.
Chaosmonger steps out of the shadows.
Raston jumps in with a blinding flash of light.
Emrys shouts: Meeting in the clinic, one east of church.
Shamgar says: is this room STILL not cleaned up?
Eldamari enters the room.
Question: "does this question box work properly? ie, is it clear that yarn
asked this question?"
Destruction arrives.
Destruction raises a fist into the air and yells, "WOO HOO!!"
Destruction waves at Eldamari, Raston, Chaosmonger, Nietzsche, Shamgar and
Emrys.
Nietzsche waves.
Destruction pokes Nietzsche in the ribs.
Eldamari waves at Destruction.
Cricket hops in hoping not to disturb anyone.
Destruction hugs Cricket.
Raston waves.
Cricket hugs Destruction.
Reflection arrives.
Cricket waves.
Chaosmonger slaps Destruction heartily on the back.
Cricket smiles happily.
Cricket hugs Reflection, Destruction, Eldamari, Raston, Chaosmonger, Nietzsche,
Shamgar and Emrys.
Destruction grins evilly.
Cricket says: there that's easier
Cricket snickers.
Destruction laughs.
Reshia arrives.
Galeck rides in on the biggest winged hippogriff you've ever seen.
Cricket tackles Galeck.
Spencer arrives from the depths of chaos.
Shamgar waves at Destruction.
Galeck smiles happily at Cricket.
Luggage arrives.
*Reshia raises an eyebrow
Destruction hehs.
Midge arrives.
Cricket says: well darn, i can't stay for the meeting, would have been
interesting
Destruction says: Well, too bad is serious, or Me would has fun with big
hippogriff thingy
Hyrljr arrives.
Midge sits down.
Cricket giggles inanely.
Hyrljr says: sorry im late
Galeck smiles happily at Hyrljr.
Hyrljr sits down.
Galeck says: actually, right on time
Cricket says: just remember it's a game people!
Hyrljr says: goo
Cricket snickers.
Galeck grins evilly.
Emrys shouts: Meeting in the clinic, one east of church.
Midge flips through her spellbook.
Hyrljr flexes his monstrous muscles.
Cricket says: have fun and don't kill anybody. :)
Midge hiccups.
Galeck flexes his Godlike muscles.
Cricket whistles appreciatively at Galeck.
Luggage says: yes, but some things aren't allowed even in a game --
harassment, good speling, etc.
Destruction says: hehhee, need big muscles to hold them sheep down?
Wierdo arrives.
Emrys says: did we start already...too much noise
Nietzsche laughs.
Wierdo snickers.
Emrys says: hold on
Shamgar says: no
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Hyrljr!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Midge!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Luggage!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Spencer!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Galeck!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Reshia!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Reflection!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Cricket!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Destruction!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Eldamari!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Raston!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Chaosmonger!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Nietzsche!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with Shamgar!
Wierdo moshes it up in the pit with you!
Galeck says: no... waiting for you, Emrys
Shamgar says: ack
Emrys says: no
Wierdo says: oops ;)
Midge flips through her spellbook.
Skyfoxx falls into the room with a thud.
Emrys says: no moshing
Annex arrives.
Midge whispers words of magic. Her eyes twinkle for a moment.
Cricket tackles Annex.
Wierdo says: sorry ;)
Annex smiles happily at Cricket.
Emrys says: and no spells, and no atmoing, please
Cricket giggles inanely.
Shamgar says: oof
Cricket snaps her fingers.
Cricket says: that's no fun
Galeck says: bad cricket
Reshia sighs deeply.
Annex says: Atmo! Banish her!
Galeck says: bad reshia
Cricket laughs.
Emrys says: and no talking from now on til I explai things :)
Galeck says: bad cricket
Reshia says: and just about to wrestle too
Doates strides in.
Doates burps.
Cricket says: i'm leaving!
Cricket winks at you and hurries home. ;).
Doates looks drunk.
Midge flips through her spellbook.
Emrys says: so we don't go blidn from spam :)
Reflection hugs Hyrljr.
Emrys says: Ok, the purpose of this session is to ask me questions.
Skyfoxx left the game.
Emrys says: I am the topic of conversation.
Hyrljr says: ok can me start?
Annex oohs.
Doates seems to fall, but takes a step and recovers.
Wierdo raises an eyebrow.
Hyrljr says: can me ask first question?
Hyrljr says: no to be rude
Emrys says: You are free to bring up rules or regular game things if you
really want to, but keep in mind I don't decide those things. The best I
can do is give my own opinion and promise to bring it up later.
Emrys says: Please wait a sec.
Akeron's group arrives.
Doates hiccups.
Akeron bows graciously.
Emrys says: We will have a meeting with at least Unk and Ratik and myself once
Unk gets back from vacation.
Hyrljr says: me speaking on behalf darkrain also
Emrys says: And that would be a more profitable place to ask more general
questions.
Reflection says: there were at least two players who wanted to be here for
which the time wasnt good
Emrys says: But for today, the topic is things I've done or things you may
have heard I've done.
Wierdo nods.
Emrys nods.
Hyrljr says: well darkrain couldnt attend so me will "represent'him
Emrys says: We can try to accomdate them and others later.
Emrys says: This box here lets you ask questions anonymously.
Emrys says: using 'ask <message>'
Skyfoxx falls into the room with a thud.
Question: ""Is your wife a goer? eh? -wink wink- -nudge nudge-"
Emrys says: wizards can verify it doesn't log who you are or anything
Wierdo says: you can also ask questions via email ;)
Annex says: No stupid question... c'mon.
Emrys says: Please don't screw around a lot, as it's going to be hard enough
to keep up.
Question: "what's it like being a father?"
Galeck says: yeah, no logging... very nice
Maeve grins evilly at Akeron.
Emrys says: Please don't speak in here unless you're addressing me. I dont'
want fights. If you do it anyway, I may have to ask you to leave.
Hyrljr says: cn me ask question you might now be able to answer?
Emrys says: So if there are no questions about the questions....you can ask a
question. But please let me finish, etc, common sense, blah blah.
Galeck says: go ahead, HJ
Emrys says: hyrl?
Hyrljr says: me has been discussing banishment with some me's colleauges
game and us has come to conclusion punishment loosing your name is verry
harsh since everyone knows you by name is thing possible you cuold try and
keep name but erase stats guild levels and all?
Wierdo says: like, just erasing player's status?
Hyrljr says: yes
Hyrljr says: thankyou
Wierdo says: and making them start all over again?
Hyrljr says: yea
Hyrljr says: if you can answer
Emrys says: This is something I don't decide. Can you save it for the next
meeting so more of us can answer?
Midge says: Don't inactives get garbage collected anyway?
Midge says: Name availalbe later
Chaosmonger says: yes, but after time
Question: "what's it like being a new father, and all"
Hyrljr says: yea me's brother happened to
Akeron says: Isn't a demote (the idea here) just a mild punishment, as
opposed to complete banishment?
Hyrljr says: rebel
Annex says: If I can make a comment from a player's perspective, banishment
isn't something that should happen more than once to a player, if even
that. If this is a real concern for you, I think there you have other
problems to address. :)
Akeron says: Well, not mild, but mild compared to banish :)
Emrys says: please
Emrys says: we can discuss this one later in a more appropriate place and time
Emrys says: all of us
Destruction leaves west.
Emrys says: for now, it isn't on topic, so I'd rather move on
Hyrljr says: well me will no screw up again me can tell you
Emrys says: hyrl, please bring it up next time
Hyrljr says: ok
Wierdo nods.
Hyrljr says: sir
Hyrljr says: lol
Emrys smirks.
Doates strides west.
Emrys says: Being a father is nice. Next question?
Annex giggles inanely.
Wierdo winks suggestively.
Midge says: Do you have time as new father for DR?
Hyrljr says: so emrys me always though you were really *mean* person but
when you talked to you other day me found out you werent
Emrys says: That's a good question.
Maeve pokes Akeron in the ribs.
Emrys says: And I'm still evaluating it, as are those over me.
Maeve says: you make time
Midge says: Can you get more game help?
Emrys says: If any of us decide I'm not being fair to my responsibilities,
we'l addrss it.
Emrys says: So far it's ok.
Midge says: Ok thanks
Luggage says: on a related note, I believe your wife is also a wiz here...
do y'all take turns handing off DR and the baby?
Emrys says: something like that :)
Hyrljr says: dude arent you people getting 2 personal?
Emrys says: we both learn to type one handed
Emrys says: I'm learning to type with my feet too :)
Wierdo rejoined the game.
Luggage chuckles softly.
Emrys says: I have nothign to hide Hyrl, they can ask what they want.
Midge whispers, appearing stronger.
Nietzsche says: remind me not to touch your keyboard
Wierdo says: what was last question/answer?
Wierdo says: sorry, connection ;)
Midge whispers words of magic. Her eyes twinkle for a moment.
Maeve says: fatherhood
Annex says: Check the log later, Wierdo. :)
Emrys says: Right now the topic is if I'm too busy as a father to be fair to
people.
Wierdo says: oh, Me was gonna say... emrys ain't mean... skyfoxx is mean
one
Wierdo winks suggestively.
Midge says: Not fair, just available as needed
Emrys says: So far I and the admin over me think I am, but we recognize it's
an issue, and we're all watching it.
Raston says: sorry...been stuck on the phone for an hour...back now
*Reshia thinks its cute when folks have the baby to keyboard. and the
child gets a say
Midge waves her hands, and chants words of magic.
Maeve says: lots of + - and enters..
Annex says: Let the baby banish someone. :)
Akeron nods hard.
Destruction arrives.
Maeve says: and space!
Wierdo says: hehe
Emrys says: Any more real questions on that topic?
Hyrljr says: itll be me
Emrys says: Please keep the small talk down.
Hyrljr laughs out loud.
Luggage says: my personal opinion is that banishment should be reserved for
those cases when no other steps can remidy the situation -- what are your
views on that (sorry for spelling)
Wierdo says: so... how much power does elder wizard actually has around
here?
Hyrljr says: so emrys do you think (personal opinion) banishment is good
punishment?
Wierdo says: as compared to say, senior, etc...
Luggage says: I haven't been around much of the activity around here
Luggage says: sorry if I interrupted another question
Emrys says: My own views are fairly open, really. The admin as a whole have
made the policies, and my role is to enforce them fairly. If they/we
change the policies, I'll go along with that.
Luggage nods.
Wierdo says: admin being unk/lucifer/etc... ;)
Annex says: How much input do you get into those policies?
Skyfoxx grins evilly.
Nietzsche says: what an answer. dodged the question completely. emrys for
president!
Wierdo says: hehe
Emrys says: A reasonable amount.
Emrys says: There is an official 'admin' group, which is me, Ratik, and the
G's.
Annex says: What about Ulysses, being the other Elder?
Emrys says: But other wizards have input as well, so.
Wierdo says: man never did answer where elder wizards is in scheme things
;)
Emrys says: Ulysses is not in that group at this time.
Hyrljr says: do you think rules should be followed *specifically* or some
lenancy should be given?
Skyfoxx says: I'll take that one.
Hyrljr says: is gonna sound stupid but....
Luggage says: I've heard some of luci's thoughts on it... will be nice to
compare notes
Skyfoxx says: The Elders are at that level because they have the full trust
of the Gods. In our absence, what they say goes. We still have override
power, of course, but they know where we stand, and enforce accordingly.
Hyrljr says: me think us should has player is voted to be rep in meetings
or whatever you call them you know voice ppl
Emrys says: backing up to read these... I think there are variosu levels of
banishment and they are appropriate at different times. I can give more on
that at the other meeeting, I'd rather not here to avoud confusing my own
ideas with my fair/unfair enforcement of the rules.
Annex says: Um, for the sake of sanity, can we finish one question and
related ones before we ask new questions? This is already getting hairy.
Wierdo says: and seniors is next in line?
Wierdo says: sorry... some us is lagging bit :(
Emrys says: As for how strictly rules are followed, again, the admin as a
whole sets the standard there, and I just implement as fairly as I can.
And if any of you have examples where I think I've not been fair, please
let me hear them...use the question box if you want to kee your name out of
it.
Wierdo says: from me's experience with emrys, Me think he's been fair :)
Emrys says: Either punishing people or not punishing them unfairly.
Question: "yea some of us just dumb"
Question: "my understanding was the rules came from having to deal with bad
people, not bad mistakes"
Emrys says: I could use some clarification on both of those.
Wierdo says: look... whoever was... Me can no help how barb's talk... it's
emrys' fault, as he's guildmaster ;)
Wierdo grins evilly.
Raston rejoined the game.
Emrys says: The box won't use guildspeak unless they give it themselves. :)
Question: "yea me sorry"
Question: "basically, like a law against mud on the flaps on the back of a
truck -- do you ticket everyone with mud, or use it to control those with too
much?"
Wierdo says: Me know, but Me prefer to let people know who is asking
question :)
Hyrljr says: thing wasnt me
Emrys says: If you mean that some people find it harder to follow the rules
because they dont' understand things as well... we try to account for that.
We get to know people. But that can't be used to have it unfair for other
people, so we have to balance it. This is why we of course discuss
punishments before handing them out.
Question: "some of us are just too helpfull"
Question: "not to say it was unfair"
Emrys says: re: mud flaps, I do't know how to answer that for sure excpt to
say that we try to be as fair as we can
Reshia says: wasnt me either
Emrys says: And again, if you have cases in mind where we weren't fair, please
name them
Emrys says: re: too helpful, again, personal opnion here, but there are other
ways to help people
Question: "i believe it was fair but yet understood (my punishment)"
Hyrljr says: wonder who was (lol)
Chaosmonger says: doing things 'for' people isn't helping them though
Hyrljr says: :)
Hyrljr says: true
Hyrljr says: well me didnt well....
Emrys says: y'all need to do more showing newbies around main town, etc. you
dont' now.
Chaosmonger says: that's a very good point
Emrys says: you give them a web page with quest info or a quest item and they
don't learn about the real mud that people built and have lived in.
Wierdo says: Me do try to show newbies around oldland bit ;)
Midge says: Problem is, they want to go fight monsters, not explore
Annex says: If anyone wants advice on how to help players, I'd be willing
to share my ideas... I've yet to get in trouble for helping people and I've
been doing that for a long time.
Chaosmonger says: if more players (mortal and wiz player) helped newbies
'learn the ropes' they wouldn't need as much help with things
Emrys says: you don't show them the matchmaker hut and the wedding chapel and
the post office and the pub
Akeron says: Oh but we do enjoy exploring.
Akeron says: But it's not fun when you run into monsters that autoattack
you and kill you before you even get to turn around.
Hyrljr says: yea
Wierdo says: yeah, what annex said... Me usually give them sword, some
armor, and tell them "take few tours"
Emrys says: you show them the smurfs are good for newbies to kill, and hey,
there's legal help that will help them with the smurf quest theoretically
Nietzsche counts backwards until annex gets banished. 5... 4... :-)
Emrys says: well, akeron, they can also offer to be bodyguards for you
Reshia says: me usually like to has them lead... and just lend muscle to
them in case attack.
Emrys says: like I did earlier but ddn't have time
Akeron says: Well, a newbie has no way of knowing that unless he's told :)
Akeron nods.
Emrys nods at Akeron.
Emrys says: I'm talking to them now ;)
Akeron says: Btw, the newbie bin is excellent.
Wierdo says: Me think there should be "consider" command, like some muds
has
Maeve agrees wholeheartedly with Akeron.
Emrys says: Anyway that got off track.
Wierdo says: so you know if monster is way to powerful or whatever
Reshia says: me like to carry one or two items in case me come across
newbie.
Annex says: Ever tried 'help shape', Wierdo? :)
Emrys says: My point would be that you're helping newbies become a better part
of DR if you really invest in them seeing the place, not just throw quest
info at them.
Hyrljr says: is why there is sizeup
Hyrljr says: no sizeup
Emrys says: Kitty did that for me when I started and she's probably a big
reason I'm still here.
Wierdo says: ok, ok... so it's new command ;)
Hyrljr says: same here
Hyrljr says: me LOVE kitty(reflection)ect.
Wierdo says: do newbies has sizeup?
Hyrljr says: yep
Emrys says: newbies haev sizeup, yes
Wierdo nods.
Akeron nods.
Annex says: To help them not get killed, of course.
Reflection says: the problem is, if the area you show them happens to be a
quest area, a player risks punishment
Maeve says: big monsters aren't the issue, big autoattacking monsters are
Wierdo says: ok, didn't know... new command ;)
Shamgar nods.
Akeron nods hard at Maeve.
Akeron says: Like the giants 4w,a handful of north and east.
Maeve says: if you're stupid anough, anyone at any level gets killed
Akeron says: Close to the village, very high chance of a newbie exploring
there.
Akeron says: Autoattacking giants.
Emrys says: As long as they aren't showing it to them as a quest area, they
shouldn't fear anything, and if it happens otherwise, I would have words
with the wizard that punished them. :)
Akeron says: Not very fun.
Chaosmonger says: if you take a player to an area and tell them it is for
'x' quest, that's a problem
Hyrljr says: ahh
Luggage says: I've taken some to quests areas I haven't solved, but never
told them so - just killed things
Hyrljr says: what if someone says they is questing and want to know where
ti is?
Destruction left the game.
Nietzsche left the game.
Hyrljr says: is illegal?
Chaosmonger says: can't tell them
Hyrljr says: ok me though so
Akeron says: the dirs 4w,couple of north and east should of course be west
in the end (trivia)
Emrys says: Well, the location of Ti is public info as far as I'm concerned.
Luci naming that location in his quest hint is his indication he wants to
let that part be public./hint/etc.
Wierdo says: sometimes Me try to be vague when someone asks where something
is... like... oldland near tika's ;)
Emrys says: Same as the newland town pub named in solitaire quest.
Emrys says: I see no issue tellign people where the newland town pub is.
Wierdo says: is acceptable... if you is vague like that?
Emrys says: Heck, it's in the help files.
Chaosmonger says: well, *is* Ti really public knowledge? i don't think so
Maeve says: it's also on the websire =)
Maeve says: websire/website
Midge says: Clarify, directing player to specific wording in quesrt
Hyrljr says: me has no clue where is me do but no remember
Midge says: Clarify, directing player to specific wording in quest guide
legal?
Emrys says: It's public enough. If you find the issue vauge, Luci explicitly
gives permission to take people to shifter guild, and that's through Ti.
Reshia says: sometimes though you find one in quest area doing things and
offer to help and they ask... iits quest.... always so hard to say well,
maybe and no has them know
Reshia says: let me clarify. offer to aid killing.
Emrys says: W'ere getting off topic. Short answer here is that if you want
clarification, you have mentioned it now, and I'll take it back to the
others and look at clarifying it.
Wierdo nods.
Emrys says: And if you want to get in more detail, we can do it next time.
Hyrljr nods.
Chaosmonger says: you can help with killing as long as you don't give any
info on the quest
Chaosmonger nods.
Galeck has disconnected.
Emrys says: For this meeting -- do yo have complaints that I'm not dealing
with those situations fairly?
Wierdo says: do you has any more guilds/quests/etc... in progress, emrys?
Annex says: Midge, it's totally legal to tell people to read the quest
description again. :)
Wierdo shakes his head.
Midge says: Tnx
Question: "what is your opinion of how people think of you do you think they
think your nice,mean,ect..."
Emrys says: here's a question, then
Question: "how do you respond to allegations your friends get away with
anything they want"
[Em: I asked that question myself, if that isn't clear.]
Emrys says: I'd have to ask for an example.
Reshia says: what me meant was they didnt know thing was quest. until
you come along and offer to help.
Chaosmonger says: heh, emrys doing 'more' quests/guilds/etc? what has he
done so far?
Chaosmonger smirks.
Reshia says: oh...
Chaosmonger says: just kidding
Wierdo says: well, man should has done few, if he's elder, one would assume
Emrys says: heh
Emrys says: I always have more things coming
Emrys says: to this point less of what I've done is directly area stuff
Chaosmonger says: no, being an elder isn't given just for putting areas
into the game
Wierdo says: so, was just wondering if man could drop hint or three about
what to expect from man in future ;)
Wierdo winks suggestively.
Emrys says: the areas I've put in that you'd all know would be smurf quest
(most popular quest, WOO) and the town inn to save equip
Wierdo nods.
Emrys says: I'll answer this in case people wonder what the heck I did for
this level. :)
Midge says: Is playground quest being completed? Many are hung.
Chaosmonger says: what do you mean?
Shamgar snickers.
Midge says: It's no longer Newbie level complexity
Akeron says: Weird syntaxes.
Maeve nods.
Akeron says: like the merry-go-round
Akeron says: it's semi-existant ;)
Chaosmonger says: 'bug' anything that you feel has bad syntax
Akeron says: You can try to turn it, but you can't examine it.
Midge says: Right, too limited in right command phrase, etc.
Akeron nods.
*Annex 'bug' s Chaosmonger.
Akeron says: (Going back to area topic, sorry) What harm would it be if
there were hints as to where areas begin? Newbies would still explore, just
that they'd get a hint where a specific area is located.
Chaosmonger says: i can't fix things if you don't tell me specifically what
you think the problems are
Emrys says: I've also done and do the web page, and was primarily responsible
for the multiplayer rules, and headed up the 10th anniv bash, and the
recent fixes to the unique hoarding issue, rewriting the post office,
rewriting the help system, writing the current war code, inspecting various
quests (ghiorso's, galeck's, hammadryad), playtesting new guilds
(dragon)...blah blah blah this is boring me
Wierdo says: true ;)
Emrys says: You get the idea.
Wierdo nods at Emrys.
Hyrljr says: you work 2 much!
Shamgar hehs.
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly.
Shamgar says: you have no idea
Shamgar grins evilly.
Emrys says: Akeron, again, not up to me, bring it up next time, but like we
were discussing before, that's generally up to the wiz writing it and the
atmsphere they want for it.
Midge says: Does anyon collect stats on quest completion rates?
Akeron nods.
Shamgar says: that's an extremely short list.
Wierdo says: depends on guild, midge
Shamgar says: he just hit some of the highlights.
Annex says: Yeah, but at least you know that Emrys has earned his rank. :)
Hyrljr says: did you see me's tell?
Midge says: Wierdo, what depends on guild?
Wierdo says: well, Me knew emrys had earned thing
Wierdo says: stats, etc... ;)
Orlando arrives.
Emrys says: more questions
Orlando says: yes, can anyone tell me everything me missed? ;-)
Emrys says: What evil stories have you heard about me.
Emrys says: er, evil things that I have done. :)
Emrys says: if I did them I want to correct them
Luggage says: what is the history behind the sheep?
Hyrljr says: you ban people for being too friendly
Midge whispers words of magic. Her eyes twinkle for a moment.
Wierdo says: how emrys took over barb guild from chaosmonger, and made exp
*much* tougher to get ;)
Emrys says: Ask Grog, I have no idea.
Hyrljr says: me heard thing
Wierdo grins evilly.
Midge says: Emrys - Does anyone collect stats on quest completion rates?
Emrys says: yes
Hyrljr says: emrys did u read me's tell
Emrys says: ban people for being too friendly, do I do that unfairly, or do I
ban everyone that is too friendly :)
Emrys says: yes, I saw it, cna you bring it up next time, it's more for that
meeting
Midge says: Is playgound being completed?
Midge says: Ok
Hyrljr says: me dunno me heard thing from someone who was it......
Maeve sighs deeply.
Chaosmonger says: again, what do you mean?
Emrys says: playground: I don't know what you mean by that, but the wiz in
charge of that area is active, so use 'bug', 'idea', etc if you experience
problems.
Chaosmonger says: it has been complete for years
Luggage says: I ran it last year
Midge says: Completed successfully by most Newbie level players.
Chaosmonger says: yea, what em said
Raston says: for those who do not know...the 'bug' and 'idea' commands are
sent directly to the wizard who owns the area.
Wierdo nods at Raston.
Emrys says: as well as the admin in general in case the area is not maintained
Shamgar says: ah
Shamgar says: I think he means, are people figuring it out
Shamgar grins evilly.
Emrys says: Unk and I generally see all of those, and so doe the relevant wiz.
Chaosmonger says: you mean are people finishing it? yes
Eldamari rejoined the game.
Shamgar says: er she, sorry
Shamgar grins sheepishly.
Midge says: Shamgar-Right! My sense is thier abandoning it
Wierdo says: who is in charge QC (for areas, etc...)?
Emrys says: Ratik.
Reflection says: I get a lot of questions regardng confusion over the
playground quest
Luggage says: it was one of the easiest for me, once I read the description
-- all my qp come from answering unk's trivia :/
Wierdo says: ahh, there you go... mail ratik about quality control problems
;)
Wierdo winks suggestively.
Chaosmonger says: sounds like people need to learn to use the commands that
have always been available to bring that kind of stuff up
Luggage says: all the others are too difficult for me :(
Wierdo says: what? there is many easy quests out there, luggage
Hyrljr says: well me find game better because thing is hard and you can
never win
Luggage says: I just need to go explore
Maeve bonks Akeron on the head.
Luggage says: building up my magic first :) so I can kill something
*Reshia didnt know about unk's trivia
Emrys says: any more questions for me?
Wierdo nods at Luggage.
Akeron bows graciously.
Akeron's group leaves west.
Maeve arrives.
Hyrljr says: do you like player fighting
Hyrljr says: in arena
Hyrljr says: me thought you were relly mean
Hyrljr says: till yesterday
Hyrljr says: in arena
Hyrljr says: is cool
Wierdo says: mud, in general does no like PK except in arena or on special
guild war
Question: "Unk will be back from the US in 20 days, right?"
Midge says: Emrys - Is PK a problem here?
Emrys says: I missed a question about what people think of me... as far as I
know most people that know me get along with me.
Emrys says: As the person responsible for dealign with rule breakers and
problem players I'm not very popular with some but I live with that, and I
try to make sure I stay accountable to people, like this.
Wierdo says: well, since Me've been playing since 1991... Me think Me can
answer one... Me've never seen PK as problem :)
Hyrljr says: hey luggage you wanna go now me wanna fight you in arena
Emrys says: I'm not sure when Unk gets back.
Emrys says: I think the arena is cool.
Luggage rolls on the floor laughing.
Midge chants, and makes a swift motion with her hands, as if striking a whip.
Emrys says: PK isnt' generally a problem here.
Emrys says: especially with the arena
Luggage says: does fighting in the arena affect our character afterwards?
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly with you.
Wierdo says: nope
Wierdo says: just money, Me think
Emrys says: And wars.
Luggage says: cool :)
Emrys says: Money in that you pay to play and the winner takes the winnings.
Luggage nods.
Wierdo says: Me think winner gets exp, too
Emrys says: Did I miss any questions from that bunch?
Wierdo says: no sure, though
Emrys says: Winner doesn't get exp.
Hyrljr says: luggage lets fight
Question: "DR has made a lot of wonderful changes within the last 2 years, what
other things can we expect to see to cotinually improve the game?"
Wierdo says: ok, was no sure
Luggage says: ok - when this is over :)
Reflection grins evilly.
Hyrljr says: well soon me hope
Emrys says: Unk is holding an entire meeting on that topic when he gets back
:)
Luggage nods.
Shamgar says: sheesh.
Shamgar is going to have more meetings here than at work before long.
Shamgar grins evilly.
Midge says: Please post official Org chart.
Wierdo winks suggestively at Shamgar.
Reshia agrees wholeheartedly with Shamgar.
Luggage says: in ascii art
Emrys says: But we're looking at bringing back some old areas (sword of ego)
like we haev recently, rewriting/updating some old ones, etc.
Wierdo says: cool...
*Wierdo misses a few of the old areas.
Hyrljr says: hey when will paper come out again????
*Wierdo noticed you brought the elvis quest back!
Emrys says: also, there is a clan system that will be implemented in the near
future
Wierdo bounces around.
Luggage says: cool
Emrys says: paper will come out when it gets an active editor :)
Hyrljr says: ahhh
Hyrljr says: me wanna submit poetry!
Midge waves her hands, and chants words of magic.
Wierdo says: ok, how will clans work? like metal militia?
Emrys says: wait and see :)
Hyrljr says: hip-hop hoard!
Wierdo says: damn ;)
Wierdo says: will metal militia be clan?
Wierdo winks suggestively.
Hyrljr says: me think there should be hip-hop hoard to represent rap lovers
Hyrljr laughs out loud.
Wierdo snickers.
Annex says: You'll probably be the only member. :)
Hyrljr says: oh well
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly with Annex.
Hyrljr says: me will then
Hyrljr says: some one has to like 2pac
Reflection says: I will listen to Queen Latifah with you :)
Question: "Would it be possible for a channel system to implemented so there
would be better player-wizard social interaction?"
Wierdo says: eww
Midge says: Emrys - Please post official Org chart with list of
responsibilities.
Hyrljr says: man is best
Skyfoxx says: re: midge. no
Wierdo says: us has channels... guilds do, anyhow ;)
Luggage says: maybe a channel for newbies
Hyrljr says: thad be annoying to wizzes though
Luggage says: they should be able to turn it off
Wierdo says: yeah no, wizzes could turn channels off and on
Reflection says: I wouldn't be annoyed with talking with players at all
Hyrljr says: yea me think there should be place where you sign up if you is
*always* ready to help newbie and type something and message and you can
help them
Wierdo says: actually, most people could turn channel off, and on ;)
Raston says: i'm never annoyed by talking to players. I like the idea
myself, though i'm not sure how hard to implement it would be :)
Emrys says: channel system like that has been discussed and turned down, but
bring it up later if you want
Hyrljr says: because when me was newbie me had to guess on who would help
Shamgar says: most wizards aren't.
Shamgar says: those that are allowed anyway.
Wierdo says: shouldn't be too tough to do, emrys ;)
Shamgar grins evilly.
Shamgar says: we'll all talk to you, but many of us can't answer questions
regarding the game.
Emrys nods.
Shamgar says: well, maybe I shouldn't say all. I only speak for me after
all
Reshia nods.
Shamgar shrugs helplessly.
Emrys says: because many of them don't know enough yet about what's going on
:)
Emrys says: it's a big mud to keep track of
Wierdo says: true, they can no answer questions for game, except to show
you how to get help, etc... ;)
Shamgar nods at Emrys.
Hyrljr says: yea like galeck and reflection us has personbal non game
rel;ated conversations(since im young they help me with me's rl probs)
Wierdo says: but, most high level players can also answer questions like
Luggage says: a newbie wizard channel would probably be more helpful :/
Wierdo says: thing
Hyrljr says: so thing works
Wierdo says: well, Me can offer some coding help, as Me admin on another
mud... but they might think thing is being disloyal
Emrys says: Heh.
Wierdo says: emrys, etc... ;)
Wierdo winks suggestively.
Emrys says: feel free to work on wizzing here
Skyfoxx says: just don't cheat :)
Wierdo says: no, Me meant, if Me offered your wizzes help
Maeve says: are you looking for good coders?
Wierdo says: with coding
Wierdo says: yup
Emrys says: We can always use good coders.
Wierdo nods.
Maeve says: I'll try to work my magic then *grin*
Emrys says: Wierdo, I'm not sure what you mean. You're welcome to wiz here if
you want to contribute, and we can always use people who want to
contribute. We don't lack for talented people, though.
Skyfoxx waves.
Skyfoxx left the game.
Eldamari covers your eyes with a brief hand movement.
Wierdo says: finger me for website, anyone is interested
Wierdo says: true ;)
Hyrljr says: why me's ears covered
Wierdo says: but me never gonna has time to do all those quests ;)
Midge chants, and makes a swift motion with her hands, as if striking a whip.
Emrys says: Well, I can see we're going to have our ears full at the other
meeting(s).
Reshia nods.
Shamgar nods.
Wierdo says: but, that's beside point, me no trying to encourage any your
wizards to leave you, emrys
Wierdo says: thing is what Me was trying to say
Hyrljr says: eldamari why you cover me's ears?
Orlando waves.
Orlando leaves west.
Emrys says: Regarding today's topic of 'Is Emrys a complete bastard', if you
have other questions now or later feel free to ask me or Unk or other
admin.
Hyrljr says: ok
Annex says: Are you a complete bastard? :)
Emrys says: I'll probably do another one of these later for the people that
weren't here today.
Hyrljr says: lol
Wierdo says: no, emrys is no bastard ;)
Shamgar nods.
Shamgar says: I knew his dad.
Annex throws his head back and cackles with glee.
Shamgar says: know even
Hyrljr says: hello?
Hyrljr says: why me's ears covered
Hyrljr says: ?
Emrys says: ?
Annex says: Hyrljr, that was just Eldamari's exit atmo.
Emrys says: oh
Hyrljr says: ic ic
Emrys says: heh
Annex says: And it was your eyes, not your ears.
Hyrljr says: me was confused me though yous talkin about me
Midge says: Head on sideways...
Wierdo comforts Hyrljr.
Annex says: So who the heck is having problems with Emrys' methods of
disclipline? I expected a lot of complaints, but I've heard next to none
today...
Luggage wants to follow Hyrljr.
Question: "were scared"
Annex says: I thought that that was why this meeting was set up.
Chaosmonger says: i don't know who does
Luggage begins following Hyrljr.
Midge says: Wrong format for topic
Annex scratches his head.
Luggage bows gracefully before Maeve, Emrys, Raston, Wierdo, Annex, Hyrljr,
Midge, Spencer, Galeck, Reshia, Reflection, Chaosmonger and Shamgar.
Question: "who hates hyrl?"
Question: "I do"
Emrys says: Methods are less of why I called this than gossip it wasn't fair
and objective.
Emrys says: I don't. :P
Hyrljr says: thanx
Hyrljr says: me think many do
Emrys says: I did want to add one more thing there -- some people seem to
think if I banish someone, I don't like them.
Emrys says: therefore, they assert I only banish people I don't like
Emrys says: which is strained logic to me
Midge says: Immature view of world. Typical of problem person.
Hyrljr says: if no one minds me being rude who here consideres me there
friend
Reflection raises her hand.
Emrys says: I like Hyrl. I like the person who owned Doctari, and have in the
past stood up for him. I liked Neo fine as a person, even though he
repeatedly and entirely lied to me, heh.
Midge waves.
Shamgar says: well, I think it probably stems from a belief that em doesn't
banish people he likes.
Emrys says: I like you fine Hyrl.
Reflection says: I think of you as a friend hyrl :)
Shamgar says: which would only leave people he doesn't like.
Emrys says: I didn't like that you broke the rules and I did what I had to but
:)
Wierdo says: me think hyrl good for bashing in arena
Wierdo winks suggestively.
Emrys says: it wouldn't be fair not to just because I like you :)
Maeve says: so, what did he do?
Hyrljr says: thing happens me has trouble learnin in dr and rl but me
Maeve tilts her head quizzically.
Annex says: Honestly, Hyrl, I don't know you well enough. I treat you (and
everyone else) like you're a decent person, and you'll have to show me that
you're not before I treat you otherwise. ;)
Emrys says: he used one player to help another, which by the rules is a
banishable offense
Hyrljr says: well me dunno some people act like me's friend on here but
really arent
Reflection says: banishable, but not mandatory that he be banished
Maeve says: as in multiplaying, helping his own char, or just helping
another player?
[Em: I'm not sure this ever got answered, see the 'punishments' command for
the details.]
Hyrljr says: well me had helped another player earlier by loggin on as
multiple chars at same time
Emrys says: Not mandatory, but standard for someone that has been warned/etc.
before and especially for someone warned before he did it not to do it.
Maeve smiles happily at Hyrljr.
Hyrljr says: see me screwed up me shoulda been greedy when me cheated but
me helped ppl
Midge chants, and makes a swift motion with her hands, as if striking a whip.
Shamgar hehs.
Hyrljr says: see me shoulda like used them to get tribe exp or something
Hyrljr says: but no
Hyrljr says: me gotta help pl
Emrys says: Anyway, from a pragmatic perspective he's been behaving himself
since, and I told him yesterday if he continues to i'll let him have the
old name back in a while.
Reflection grins evilly.
Hyrljr says: oh well thing happens im over thing
Maeve nods.
Hyrljr says: me try and be good
Reflection says: hope you get Hyrl Sr. back soon, Hyrl :)
Luggage says: cool
Hyrljr says: ill brb
Hyrljr left the game.
Emrys says: And I also let him off the hook recently when he was caught in
...suspicious... circumstances because he said he was innocent and he's
been behaving himself and I believed him.
Hyrliii arrives.
Hyrliii says: ta da
Emrys says: cute.
Hyrliii says: just incase
Luggage giggles inanely.
Emrys snickers.
Raston chuckles politely.
Maeve giggles merrily.
Annex says: Oh, here's another question...
Emrys says: And if I didn't like these people, would I really haev left
'biteme'? :)
Luggage says: I wondered about that one
Shamgar hehs.
Midge chants, and begins glowing.
Hyrliii flexes his muscles.
Emrys says: Heck him I even gave money to as a player.
Emrys says: Annex?
Annex says: (typing it out now. :)
Hyrliii says: who did u give money 2
Hyrliii says: im suprised how much you ppl put up with because of me i just
keep going and going and asking questions and all
Hyrliii says: i like never shut up
Reflection says: I think you are rather endearing, Hyrl :)
Annex says: When a newbie is working on a quest, are we allowed to help
them think the quest through? I'm not talking about pointing them in one
direction or another, but rather helping to think logically, or in a way
that is condusive to questing.
Emrys says: I was referring to giving some to Biteme.
Reflection ruffles Hyrliii's hair playfully.
Annex says: Would an example help?
Hyrliii softly whispers to Reflection sweet words of love.
Hyrliii laughs out loud.
Reflection says: good question Annex
Emrys says: Annex, as a palyer I had a 'top 10 things to do when questing'
which I gave people, and I never got in trouble for it.
Emrys says: It had no specific info, just general things.
Chaosmonger says: i've done that before
Emrys says: People seemed to find it useful.
Shamgar hrms.
Hyrliii says: can i have a list?
Emrys says: #6. search everything :)
Shamgar says: you only told me 5
Shamgar pouts.
Emrys says: well whatever
Shamgar grins evilly.
Emrys says: it was years ago i don't remember what it had
Annex says: Maybe that should become a help file of its own, and/or
something on the website. :)
Annex says: Oh.
Hyrliii says: well write new one
Emrys says: I shoudl construct it again and make it a help file.
Luggage nods.
Emrys hehs.
Raston agrees wholeheartedly with you.
Reflection says: if someone is having trouble with syntax, I pretty much
tell them that tho
Shamgar says: look at everything...always carry heals...always carry
teleport...etc
Hyrliii says: its stuff that helps
Shamgar says: mostly common sense stuff
Hyrliii says: well sorry to leave but my bro needs comp
Midge says: Too expensive, too heayv
Reflection says: no sense in someone struggling with something they have
figured out the clue to because the syntax isnt something they would
normally use
Emrys says: if at first you don't succeed, do it 20 times, because some
wizards *cough unk* are into the repeating thing
Shamgar waves.
Hyrliii says: so ill see yall later
Luggage waves at Hyrliii.
Reflection waves at Hyrliii.
Shamgar nods.
Maeve says: if wizards used common sense, such a list wouldn't be nessesary
Raston waves at Hyrliii.
Annex says: How do you mean, Maeve?
Wierdo says: who was asking me about coding?
Hyrliii waves.
Luggage says: common sense isn't common, though - it's different with every
person
Emrys says: well, there can be
Chaosmonger says: that's what the 'idea' command is for
Reflection says: yeah, I think some quests are more logical than others
Maeve says: especially when it comes to commads
Reflection says: good point luggage
Shamgar says: well, there have been efforts to weed out the bad ones.
Emrys says: someone new to lpmud may not realize they can look at items
Hyrliii says: pufff hyrljr dissapears in a puufff of smuke
Emrys says: other mud bases don't have that
Hyrliii laughs out loud.
Hyrliii says: barb quit
Hyrliii laughs out loud.
Hyrliii left the game.
Maeve says: if you examine all things in a room, and you know what to do,
but you can't find the right syntax
Wierdo says: most muds has items you can look at ;) (lp muds)
Reflection says: yeah, in that instance I would pretty much tell someone
they had a syntax problem so they didnt think they were on the wrong track
Wierdo says: Me think, if it's noun in room's long description, you should
be able to look at thing
Maeve says: or if you know you have to do something with a specific item,
but you can't even examine the thing
Emrys says: Reflection, re: syntax, that's generally something we ask you to
refer up the chain so we can fix it as well as get them through it. But
maybe you do, just noting it in case you haven't. :)
Maeve says: well, dr sure has few ass_items
Midge says: Syntax should not be the puzzle
Maeve says: add, sorry
Emrys agrees wholeheartedly with Midge.
Raston says: Wierdo, re : nouns...we're working on that as we speak
Maeve agrees hard with Midge.
Wierdo nods.
Emrys says: syntax problems are bugs in my opinion
Emrys says: but this is all ratik's territory, so I'm somewhat speaking as a
player here
Shamgar agrees with Emrys.
Annex says: Another issue is that DR is a mud in a state of change,
Maeve... old areas aren't as well written as new ones. The admin is trying
to fix that, but DR is a big mud. :) This is where having more good
wizards would help. =)
Emrys nods at Annex.
Emrys says: Raston is doing a lot of work for us there :)
Raston sighs deeply.
Wierdo says: keep in mind, maeve, is probably one oldest muds still in
existance!
Raston says: I'm trying :)
Emrys says: everyone thank him for the new weed monster
Maeve says: I will bug Unk big time when he's back, that's a promise =)
Emrys snickers.
Annex cheers at Raston.
Raston pokes you in the ribs.
Wierdo says: Me mean, Me know it's been up since 1989... and that's old for
mud ;)
Luggage says: DR is also based on a mudlib that's 10 yrs old... it shows
its age in a few places such as command syntax at time, or availability of
commands like `look' (maze near the orc valley)
Emrys says: 1990
Maeve says: old doesn't equal big
Emrys says: Luggage, the mudlib is not 10 years old.
Wierdo says: well, late 1989 ;)
Wierdo winks suggestively.
Luggage says: well, somewhere in there
Emrys says: The mudlib has been constantly updated and quite a lot of it has
been replaced in the last 2 years.
Wierdo nods.
Emrys says: The look example would be an area thing actually.
Emrys says: You should 'bug' those.
Wierdo says: you just has to keep things backward compatible, and sometimes
can be tough ;)
Maeve nods.
Luggage says: basically, the mudlib has a large affect on how a player
interacts with things
Maeve says: how many rooms (approximately) is dr?
Emrys says: A bajillion last time we looked.
Maeve says: and how many active wizards with areas?
Emrys says: Really, I don't remember what I got last time. The mud connector
listing has it.
Emrys says: Luggage, that is true, and like I siad, it's been updated a lot
int he last couple years...that's most of what Unk and I do, actually.
Luggage says: has that listing been updated since the IP address changed
recently?
Emrys says: Some areas like that need updating to use the new features.
Shamgar agrees with Emrys.
Wierdo nods.
Luggage nods.
Shamgar agrees with Emrys.
Emrys says: Maeve...active wizards....
Luggage says: I'll `bug' it next time I'm in the area :)
Wierdo says: when Me do mudlib work, Me usually try for max backward
compatibility
Emrys says: I'm terrible with numbers. 42? Heh.
Maeve chuckles politely.
Shamgar growls loudly.
Annex says: No, that's the amount of essence I've used up.
Wierdo says: hehe
Wierdo says: 6 x 9?
Emrys says: Unk would be a better person to ask that.
Maeve says: hehe, he'll grow tired in me :p
Emrys says: There are probably round 100? areas, maybe 1/3 1/2 of those haev
active wizzes?
Shamgar says: if I said/repeated anything odd ignore me. my son got ahold
of the keyboard while I was in the other room.
Shamgar smirks.
Wierdo nods.
Maeve giggles merrily at Shamgar.
Maeve says: I know how that ususally turns out
Emrys says: You proposed to Luggage.
Chaosmonger says: yea, sure
Emrys says: We're all waiting for the answer.
Luggage says: what did I miss?
Shamgar lafs.
Midge smiles happily.
Emrys says: Luggage I don't knwo if the listing has been updated since they
changed it... I think so, I connect via ip and usually update it as soon as
I realize it.
Reshia laughs.
Luggage nods.
Luggage says: just curious - last update is 18 feb '98
Emrys boggles at the concept.
Raston says: Regarding active areas and wizzes : there are also several
newer wizards who do not yet have areas. Some like me are trying to
maintain older code and get it up to current standards.
Emrys says: I know I sent in an update since then.
Emrys says: I thought it had gone through.
Emrys says: I'll have eto check that again...
Luggage nods.
Spencer left the game.
Maeve says: well, this has been quite intresting
Wierdo says: now, here's question... Me've only heard second hand, mind
you...
Maeve curtseys.
Maeve leaves west.
Wierdo says: since Me has never been wiz... but why can no new wizards look
more freely at code?
Wierdo says: how is they to learn, if they can no view examples?
Emrys says: Very new wizards can look at their own code til they have shown
they know how to code. After that they can look at most all of the code.
Emrys says: They can also look at examples, of course.
Emrys says: And if they need more, that is the role of their sponsor.
Wierdo says: well, Me was going to say, most people learn by example
Raston says: Typically the sponsor provides a base set of examples to learn
from.
Reflection says: I am currently learning to code on a mud that has a
separate 'dojmain' for learners, everything there is organized for
learning...works well for me
Wierdo nods.
Midge says: Style manual available to new Wiz?
Wierdo says: ok, Me was just curious
Emrys says: There is a section of the lib containing examples for them, and
their sponsor can give them what else they need.
Wierdo nods.
Emrys says: New wiz docs are admittedly lacking and we work on them as we have
time, we rely on the personal touch in most cases.
Wierdo nods.
Wierdo says: ok, Me was going to say, Me heard you were bit low on docs and
stuff ;)
Emrys says: Not very long ago we added a new manual for new wizzes, we're
wanting alternatievs for that as well for different kinds of poeple.
Emrys says: I have plans to make a newbie wiz area one of these days when I
can get to it.
Reflection says: yeah, I found the present system here very confusing as a
novice coder
Wierdo says: but, Me could recommend good site for new wiz docs
Reflection says: I relied on my sponsors quite a bit
Emrys nods.
Raston says: I relied on my sponsor a LOT...and I'm sure Unk finds me
annoying sometimes too :)
Wierdo nods.
Chaosmonger says: that's why we have sponsors
Emrys says: We've had to work with quite a lot of people from various
backgrounds.
Chaosmonger says: but the docs could use work
Wierdo says: download lpc basics and intermediate from ftp.imaginary.com
Wierdo says: in plain text format
Wierdo says: very well written help for new wizzes
Emrys says: But keep in mind that the people that wrote those are from a
different philosophy of mud design than most people around here. ;P
Wierdo says: and thing doesn't matter for code base
Emrys says: Not to say one is more right or wrong, you can tell which I
prefer.
Midge whispers, appearing stronger.
Midge chants, and makes a swift motion with her hands, as if striking a whip.
Eldamari enters the room.
Midge whispers words of magic. Her eyes twinkle for a moment.
Wierdo says: emrys, Me recommend basic and intermediate LPC docs on
ftp.imaginary.com
Wierdo says: they is non lib specific, and very well done
Emrys says: yes, that's what I was referring to
Wierdo says: yes, no everything applies to mud, but they is well done ;)
Emrys says: I'm sure some people would find them helpful. I didn't
particularly.
Wierdo shrugs helplessly.
Emrys yawns.
Wierdo says: course, mud specific docs has to be written by wizards on mud
nod
Emrys nods.
Emrys says: Descartes and co. just see thigns differently in a lot of areas.
Emrys says: That's why they did their own driver.
Emrys says: More power to them.
Wierdo says: true
Annex says: Em, when we're done with this topic, I'd like to bring up
something that's more in line with your intended topic of the evening. :)
Wierdo says: Me dislike descartes as individual, but mans writting is good
Emrys says: Go ahead.
Emrys says: I doubt this is of interest to everyone. :)
Annex giggles inanely.
Wierdo says: never hurts to go bit off topic ;)
Wierdo says: go ahead, annex
Annex says: Okay, well, last night I talked to someone (who shall remain
nameless :) to see if he was coming to this... he's not here now, but he
made some comments that I'm going to throw out to you to see what your
response is to them.
Emrys says: Fine with me.
Reflection says: yeah, I know of people who couldnt come too
Emrys says: Like I said, I'll try to do it again for them.
Emrys says: I don't knwo who they are but Ref if you want to find out from
them when is good and let me know?
Annex says: He said that he wasn't going to come because it "will not
change anything"...
Reflection nods.
Annex says: I asked what there was to change, and he responded that the mud
is dying, mostly because of the admins.
Annex says: "people want more friendly admins"
Reflection says: yes, I hear that a lot too
Emrys says: To that I'd just have to say... the game has changed drastically
over the last 2 years, in player's favor. And if this is about me... I was
behind a lot of those.
Emrys says: either initiating them or supporting them
Reflection says: and its something I, myself, would like to see
Emrys says: so, if this is about me, what have I stood against or done?
Chaosmonger says: what does 'more friendly admins' mean?
Annex says: Hang on, not done here. :)
Emrys nods.
Wierdo says: there is only so far admin can go, as far as being "friendly"
Annex says: I'm going to spew for several lines, then I'll let you know
when I'm done... just so we all have the background here. :)
Wierdo says: Me has learned, from running me's own mud
Chaosmonger nods.
Annex says: He told me to type 'punishments', which I'd already seen. I
told him that I'd already seen these and had no problems with them given
that the infractions were big and that all involved should have known
better...
Wierdo says: it's good admin that's indifferent at best... no real admin
could be called "friendly"
Annex says: That's when he made the comment about wanting more friendly
admins.
Emrys says: That's not true Wierdo.
Midge says: No
Wierdo says: well, depends on player definition "friendly"
Emrys waits for Annex to say he's done...
Annex says: ...and about the mud dying. I asked if the mud was dying
because the admin was enforcing the rules... he didn't answer that except
by saying that "the rules do change".
Wierdo says: admin has to banish, etc... certain people, or there would be
no way to enforce rules
Annex says: Okay... this part is done... what I hear is vague displeasure,
but no real reasons for thinking that the admin is unfriendly. How do you
respond to this, if you can at all?
Midge says: Wierdo - That's not the same thing
Emrys says: First, I'd even challenge his assertion that "the mud is dying".
Annex says: I was at a loss for words at the time.
Emrys says: Two years ago it definitely was.
Emrys says: We had no one here.
Emrys says: It was more or less dead.
Wierdo says: Me mean, to me, unk and lucifer both seem friendly enough
Emrys says: "The admin" he's talking about have changed a lot of stuff since
then.
Wierdo says: but let's no get carried away :) you no wanna piss 'em off
Emrys says: aliases, color, blah blah
Emrys says: player friendly stuff
Wierdo says: true
Emrys says: the mud has been growing a lot since
Emrys says: Just a month or two ago we had that bash, and it was a great
success.
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly with you.
Emrys says: It woudl never have flown two years ago.
Midge says: I want free beer back!
Emrys says: I do realize we're down a bit the last couple weeks.
Emrys says: But this is September (was), and we always are then.
Emrys says: Every year..
Annex says: That might just be the fact that school's started... yeah.
Wierdo nods.
Emrys says: It has to do with people going back to school as far as we can
tell.
Luggage says: it's all the `no mudding' signs at work
Wierdo says: us is always bit low in sept.
Emrys says: But every year at this time we have people saying the mud is
dying.
Wierdo says: thing isn't
Reshia nods.
Emrys says: It always grows back, and we're better now than we were a year ago
at this time.
Wierdo says: Me've been here since 1991...
Emrys says: There are almost 20 people on right now.
Wierdo says: trust me, is no dying ;)
Emrys says: Granted this is an event, but we get this many fairly often now.
Emrys says: I can remember when 20 was a cause to drink. :)
Emrys says: And.
Annex hehs.
Emrys says: If I'm too be brutally honest.
Reflection says: I have noticed a lot of new wizard seconds, but not so
many new players in the last year, at least not new pallayers who stay
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly with you.
Wierdo says: Me remember when 10 was cause to drink ;)
Wierdo grins evilly.
Emrys says: well, nevermind what I was going to say
Annex hehs.
Emrys says: Ref, the numbers we have don't back that up, I'm sorry to have to
disagree.
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly with you.
Emrys says: We don't hav hard numebrs...something else Unk is going to work on
when he gets back.
Midge says: I think the command parser is an issue with people leaving
Wierdo says: Me've seen quite few new players here... for example...
Reflection says: I am happy to hear the numbers regarding new players who
are not wizard seconds who are staying for regular play
Wierdo says: diana... Me no think is second
Reflection says: I thought you had numbers
Reflection says: diana has been here forever, not just the last year :)
Emrys says: just looking at who we have now on, I see 8 that aren't wiz
seconds and are more or less new
Emrys says: or else very old playes that have come back lately and stayed
around (orlando)
Wierdo nods.
Reflection says: I hope they find cause to stay, because I have noticed
that new players leave fairly soon
Emrys says: they always have
Emrys says: the good news is less of them do lately :)
Emrys says: hyrl and his friends for example
Wierdo nods.
Emrys says: ryker is on now, he's part of anothre group that play a lot,
several of them
Reflection says: I have personally encouraged hyrl to give the mud another
chance when he wanted to quit
Wierdo says: us do tend to get 'em in groups, no we?
Emrys says: reshia had a group, not many of them are around these days, but
they drop through
Emrys nods at Wierdo.
Wierdo says: heck, Me think Me remember back when chaosmonger was player ;)
Wierdo chuckles politely.
Chaosmonger says: heh
Eldamari covers your eyes with a brief hand movement.
Emrys says: From the stuff I've been keeping an eye on lately, we're actually
dropping in seconds created while we increase in singles that stay.
Reflection says: I look forward to the publication of that material
Emrys says: Based on the fact that our regular logins are around the same, but
the total number of people is going down.
Wierdo says: well, at least, if thing was no chaos, thing was someone else,
like hamadryad
Emrys says: regular logins are in the logs, unk.users..that's people on at
that time
Emrys says: total logins for the lat month are in another file I will tell the
wizards in a second :)
Emrys says: it's the processed data we don't have for those, we have the raw
data
Wierdo says: yeah, you gotta fish out seconds form new user data
Midge leaves west.
Emrys says: Annex did I get all that?
Emrys says: I guess i'm just taling about numbers there.
Wierdo nods.
Emrys says: And that the admin we have has consistnely been putting "player
friendly" stuff in for the last two years, no sign of stopping.
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly.
Emrys says: So...what is he talking about :)
Wierdo says: Me like eternal idea ;)
Annex says: Sounds good to me... I have personally found the admin more
friendly now than before when Luci first put up his post in the AG asking
for ideas on how to save the mud. :)
Wierdo says: well, emrys, Me would _like_ to contribute to your mud, but Me
just no has time to do your tougher quests :)
Annex says: Anyway, there's more that I'd like you to address... so here
goes again for another few lines.
Reflection says: well, when you see titles like 'the answer to your first
question is: shaddup' and when you hear player bashing over the wiz
channels, its pretty easy to question friendliness toward players
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly with Reflection.
Reshia agrees wholeheartedly.
Annex says: Er, I'll hold back at the moment to let Reflection's point get
answered.
Reshia says: and how about when you ask question and get boot to head
Reflection says: sorry Annex
Reshia says: just adds to moral
Reflection says: yes
Annex says: No worries. :)
Emrys says: People get frustrated. And they joke around. We're not into
censoring them. If they do act abusive toward palyers, that's another
issue.
Reflection says: or when you try to change things and just get discouraged
:)
Reshia says: well thing dropped me's hit points....
Reflection says: we were talking about player friendliness :)
Reshia says: but me also knew thing was joke
Emrys says: Reshia, if you're not getting questiosn answered or even referrd
to someone else, please complain to me or a god about the wizard.
Reshia says: but me hate to think some newbie asking and getting
Reshia says: oh me asked someone else after thing happened. just shocked
me somene would do that... and me had newbie with me at time
Emrys says: Well, I don't see 'shaddup' as any worse than 'biteme', and I
don't see a reason to censor either.
Eimher arrives.
Chaosmonger says: just because the changes that a single person wants don't
get implemented doesn't mean that this mud is not open to change
Emrys says: Reshia if you asked a question of a wiz and lost hp because of it
I would like to know who did that, because that is illegal.
Reflection says: well, my point is that it does show player unfriendliness
which is the issue and question
Wierdo says: censorship is bad... leads to less freedom ;)
Chaosmonger says: not censoring people shows unfriendliness? r not
implementing every change that people mention?
Reshia says: truth be told me dont remember.... if thing happens again
though ill let you know
Reflection says: chaosmonger I will not address your attacks any longer
Chaosmonger shrugs helplessly.
Annex blinks.
Emrys says: You're free to talk to the wiz about that Reflection, dialogue is
good... as long as they aren't acting out toward/harassing palyers I don't
see a reason I'd be involved.
Chaosmonger says: i'm trying to get clarification on your statements
Emrys says: If a player wants to take it as that person beig surly there are
other peope they can talk to.
Reshia says: biteme is great guy, when man first came on man thought man
was gonna be hated cuz mans name, showed man ropes and hung out for quite
while night. :)
Wierdo says: bitme is silly name, Me think ;)
Reflection says: biteme is a loyal DR player :)
Emrys says: Though I doubt the one in question is directed at players, that
wiz quotes song lyrics in his title, it's just as easily directed at me as
anyone else.
Wierdo says: although, Me do think someone logging in as "gamedriver" might
get banished
Wierdo snickers.
Reflection says: but to a player reading titles, it is easy to see it as an
unwillingness to help or answer questions
Reshia nods.
Reshia says: man had told me first time man came on man was just looking
around. :) made man blush if me recall. *grin* glad man stayed
Emrys says: And to a wiz, 'biteme' is easy to see as an unwillingness to
respect the rules or the game. I'm not going to censor people.
Emrys says: But if you're concerned about it, talk to the wiz.
Reflection says: I did not see any request for censorship
Emrys says: As someone else might talk to Biteme, but it isnt' going to be me.
Wierdo says: Me no think "biteme" is bad name
Emrys says: I'm sorry, I'm taking it in context of this conversation.
Emrys says: If you're speaking about it in general... I don't see a real
reason to talk about it without the wiz here.
Wierdo says: biteme is wiz?
Wierdo looks puzzled.
Reflection says: I was making the point that it is easy to see why players
would think the admin unfriendly
Emrys says: silly barbs.
Wierdo says: Me thought was just player?
Emrys ruffles Wierdo's hair playfully.
Annex says: AFK a few... getting dinner. :)
Emrys says: hey you had a question :)
Reshia says: man went wiz. man oh man
Wierdo says: me?
Chaosmonger says: a single wizard represents 'the admin?'
Wierdo says: fear, biteme went wiz ;)
Emrys says: Well, that's your opinion. I don't think most players would go
that way. You're free to talk to the wiz if you're concerned about it, I
don't know what else I can say?
Reflection says: no, but it was one example of indifference or
unfriendliness that is often encountered by players
Emrys says: Well, first, no one is required to be friendly toward players.
People can be promoted for other reasons. I'd see the issue more as people
being hostile toward them or unfair toward them.
Reshia says: wow. and me only level higher than me was when man was newbie.
Reflection says: you can say that you can see why a player might think that
Emrys says: But I think overall we have a good amount that are friendly toward
them.
Emrys says: I can see why a palyer might think that.
Emrys says: Even if I can't type it.
Reshia giggles inanely.
Emrys says: biteme is not a wizard, for the confused :)
Reshia says: thing got you too eh
Reshia says: okay...
Wierdo says: ok
Chaosmonger says: i think that a player making assumptions based on 1
wizard is not very interested in giving this mud a chance
Wierdo says: Me was going to say, emrys ;)
Annex says: Back.
Emrys says: Yeah. I can see why a player might think that particular wizard
didn't want to answer questions.
Chaosmonger says: i understand your point, and can see that someone might
be taken back by it, but assuming that it means that the 'admin' is
unfriendly because of that is just silly, in my opinion
Emrys says: And I can imagine such a person assuming the whole admin is like
that too, but I wouldn't think that person was being very open minded.
Emrys says: The second person.
Wierdo says: Me was wondering... or, has suggestion, or what not...
Emrys says: er, I woudln't think a person taking that to include the whole
admin was being open minded
Wierdo says: why no make 1 quest, to be wizard? like, mud-wide scavenger
hunt... for hard to find items? (this would prove you know whole mud)
Emrys says: typing breaking down, batteries dying...
Emrys quotes: "remember, don't shoot the food"
Emrys says: or it would prove you knew someoen who helped you with the list
Emrys says: Annex you had a question?
Wierdo says: hrmmm... no, because list could be randomly generated
Annex says: Still.
Shamgar hehs.
Emrys says: and so you ICQ people with your list items
Emrys shrugs.
Wierdo says: and you had to answer where all things were found, at end
Wierdo says: well, ok, was just thought
Shamgar says: imo i think that would actually be harder than wizzing
Luggage nods.
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly with Shamgar.
Emrys says: bring it up at the other meeting if you want
Wierdo says: will thing be posted when next meeting is?
Emrys says: no. :)
Emrys says: you have to guess.
Emrys grins evilly.
Reshia sighs deeply.
Shamgar throws his head back and cackles with glee.
Reshia says: evil
Emrys says: yes, it will.
Emrys ruffles Wierdo's hair playfully.
Wierdo says: well, wasn't... or, at least, Me didn't see thing
Annex says: Back to the stuff in 'punishments', the other fellow didn't
disagree that those punishments were justified, but he then said "why even
care?"
Wierdo says: until Me came on today
Annex says: "the way I figure it.. let them cheat... if they enjoy the mud
and it grows"
Emrys says: I have to figure out when Ratik and I can do it.
Emrys says: He has weird hours.
Annex says: "this mud is dying.. other muds encourage people to help others
to quest"
Wierdo says: cheating doesn't make thing very fair for people want to play
mud...
Emrys says: Annex I might let you answer that yourself first. :)
Wierdo says: and some people want to play, and no cheat
Annex says: So I asked what the point of having quests would be if everyone
could cheat? No wiz would make a cool quest when they knew that the
solution would be given out after the first person solved it.
Luggage says: if cheating were allowed, it would be to easy to give in to
the temptation
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly.
Luggage says: ^to^too
Reflection says: why not let people take what they want from it? its only a
game, and games are meant to be enjoyed, nothing mandatory for all to play
the same way
Annex says: His response: "quests are like puzzles.. some people like
them.. others think they are annoying ... why have a system based on
quests?"
Chaosmonger says: no one is forced to do quests
Luggage says: well, there is solitaire and yahtzee and Unk's trivia
Wierdo says: actually, chaosmonger, you are... if you want to get your
character above level 4, you has to do quests
Emrys says: let us know when you're done Annex
Chaosmonger says: people are free to work only on guilds
Wierdo says: so, in way, thing is forcing you to do quests
Wierdo says: most guilds will no let you join until level 5
Chaosmonger says: true, you can't get above player level 4, but you can
still advance guild levels all you want
Annex says: Then he went back to "the mud is too tight ... hard on the
rules. People are going to get around the rules anyway..."
Chaosmonger says: i think only the mage guild has that limit
Wierdo says: so, you do has to do at _least_ 1 quest, before you join guild
;)
Wierdo says: well, Me would no recommend becoming barb at level 4
Emrys says: Alchemists do too.
Wierdo says: heh
Reshia says: man has point there
Chaosmonger shrugs helplessly.
Annex says: I'm sorry if this sounds incoherent, but this is how the
conversation went, more or less. ... Anyway, I think that I'm done for this
part. :)
Emrys says: Well a few things then.
Chaosmonger says: my point is just that no one is forced to play the
'standard' way
Wierdo says: how is you going to do becoming barb quest at level 4? Me
would recommend at least level 7 for thing
Shamgar says: lotsa heals
Shamgar grins evilly.
Emrys says: This is another entire-admin issue.
Chaosmonger says: yea, there's plenty of free money around, buy equip and
heals
Wierdo says: well, maybe, Me still think quests for levels is mandatory
quests...
Emrys says: My own thought is that jut sharign the info is the lazy way to
deal with this issue.
Wierdo says: player levels, is
Emrys says: And it has a lot of negativ effects.
Reflection says: I agree that the game is structured for a certain type of
play
Wierdo nods.
Wierdo says: thing is
Chaosmonger says: certainly
Chaosmonger says: it really can't be otherwise
Chaosmonger says: but no one is forced to play that way
Wierdo says: if you like muds require quests to advance player levels, then
thing is good
Reflection says: that was not an open minded comment :)
Luggage says: iirc, quests were put in to make sure people did more than
kill the same monster over and over and then wiz, among other reasons
Wierdo says: true
Luggage says: now, I have been killing the head school teacher for some
time now, and biorg, and now the mage nne (i think) of newland church
Emrys says: If players cheat to quest, it's hard to get wizzes interested in
coding good quests for those that want to do quests. We right now are
risking losing at least one very good wiz to some extent cause people keep
cheating on his quests.
Wierdo says: is why Me suggesting wiz quest... to make sure you know whole
mud ;)
Emrys says: So it hurts both wizzes and palyers that like quests, for the sake
of those that don't.
Shamgar says: still open to cheating wierdo
Wierdo nods at Emrys.
Emrys says: As far as me, I've strongly supported ideas in the past that were
for making all level advancement mixing xp/qp like eternals do, for diff
styles of play.
Wierdo says: well, true... but Me think thing could be made bit hard to
cheat...
Emrys says: And was even more strognly in favor of one that would have
effectively left it all up to the guild, for maximum variations in style of
play.
Shamgar nods at Emrys.
Emrys says: That one was proposed by Chaos btw.
Emrys says: But neither made it all the way through.
Wierdo says: Me also think there should be quests just for player char
enhancement
Shamgar loves that idea btw.
Shamgar grins evilly.
Reshia says: thats true, but combination both and trial by questioning,
random questions on any given day by any wiz, over certain number days
could help solve
Chaosmonger says: heh, i was going to mention that
Mariem arrives.
Wierdo says: like, if you do quest, you get auto_loading powerful weapon,
or what no
Wierdo says: but, based on guild
Emrys says: So we have what we do, and my job is to be fair about it for
everyone, and the way it is, that means not ignoring the quest cheating,
because that's not fair to people that do it by the rules, or to the
wizzes.
Reflection wonders if Annex was finished with his point.
Wierdo nods.
Wierdo says: Me mean, thing is in rules... about quests ;)
Emrys says: He said he was done with the last thing I saw...
Annex says: Yeah, I was, thanks, Ref. :)
Shamgar says: he said he was.
Reflection says: ok :)
Emrys says: So, here we are, with an issue, that we work to solve.
Wierdo says: so, ignorance is no excuse
Wierdo says: everyone should know rules
Emrys says: Moving the guilds away from using player exp was part of that.
Wierdo nods.
Emrys says: So that people could focus on guild more if they wanted to.
Reflection says: I dont really see the point of giving out information, I
think that things should be more flexible for players and wizards to give
better hints to solve.
Wierdo says: yeah, is true... but what do you do when you is level 25 barb,
but only level 12 player?
Shamgar says: kill everything
Shamgar grins evilly.
Wierdo says: and you'd like to wiz, but no has time to do all those quests
;)
Chaosmonger says: for sure
Wierdo grins evilly.
Eimher says: or get another char and try new guild
Wierdo says: well, true ;)
Chaosmonger says: well, if you want to wiz, there is only 1 way
Wierdo says: do all dang quests ;)
Wierdo says: Me know, Me know ;)
Reflection says: I have no problems regarding other people cheating, I did
like to have a quest hint or two (just as I have given them) on occasion
Shamgar says: not all of em wierdo
Chaosmonger says: and people are free to suggest other possibilities
Wierdo says: well, no, no all 'em
Wierdo says: but enough 'em ;)
Chaosmonger says: not that many really
Chaosmonger says: and there are MANY to chose from
Shamgar nods at Chaosmonger.
Wierdo says: true ;)
Wierdo shrugs helplessly.
Wierdo says: eventually, Me will get there, Me suppose ;)
Shamgar says: and some are really good
Wierdo says: no mind me, just bellyaching ;)
Mariem leaves west.
Shamgar says: i like galeck's, chaos' and some of unk's partcularly
Wierdo says: well, thing used to be you had to do all quests, but now us
has more quests ;)
Wierdo winks suggestively.
Shamgar says: yeah
Chaosmonger says: yea, i remember when there weren't very many
Wierdo says: and more quests is good thing :)
Chaosmonger says: and we only had to get 350 qp to wiz
Reflection says: I pretty much stick with unks anymore :) and some of the
other older players quests
Wierdo says: me glad you guys brought elvis back
Shamgar says: when i first started playing (what...4 or 5 years ago now?) i
felt the same weay
Wierdo says: well, now it's 425 quest points for wiz
Annex says: 450.
Wierdo says: Me think that's bit high
Wierdo says: help levels says 425
Annex says: That's your char... new ones are 450. :)
Shamgar says: wished there was a way to wiz w/out quests. but its really
not so bad
Wierdo says: true... thing does prove you know mud
Shamgar says: oh yeah, and raist's. that one ius really good
Reflection says: that's just it, shamgar, most people get frustrated at
some point when questing, but by the time people wiz, they seem to have
forgotten what it was like :)
Emrys says: Or changed their mind.
Wierdo agrees wholeheartedly with Reflection.
Shamgar hehs.
Shamgar says: i was frustrated for 4 years.
Shamgar grins evilly.
Reflection grins evilly.
Wierdo says: in fact, Me might get around to doing elvis quest, since Me
think Me did thing before... thing got deleted ;)
Shamgar says: but as the quests got better and we got more of them it got
easier
Wierdo says: if thing has no changed so much
Emrys says: I got frustrated working on some quests. I still do. That's part
of the end experience of it, and in the end, it's an enjoyable one for me.
Shamgar says: and as i quested more i got better at it
Wierdo nods.
Reflection says: well, better, is a relative thing, what is logical to one
person may not be to another
Annex says: I think that the quest point requirement is good... shows that
people can persevere (as long as they don't have friends helping them
cheat). I think you want mature people as wizards, not just someone who
shows up, codes something half-assed and then disappears to play "The Sims"
later on because they think it's cooler.
Emrys says: I don't expect it is for everyone. I've supported things to make
it different. Quest info is the lazy way, and it's not addressing the
problem at all.
Wierdo says: Me just has really interesting idea for quest, Me think would
be *very* hard to cheat at
Reflection says: well, Jeremy, I know you have had quest hints because I
have given them to you myself, remember, I helped you start out :)
Wierdo says: and Me want to make it, but oh well, Me digress ;)
Chaosmonger agrees wholeheartedly with Annex.
Emrys says: Yep.
Reflection says: so there should be some tolerance for others to do the
same thing
Emrys says: I'd also note that after I wizzed I did what I could to get such
quests fixed.
[Em: That wasn't a complete answer to that question. For the record, I have
no problem with the idea that I should have been punished for rules I broke in
the past. I don't think I would've lied about stuff if people had asked me,
and if it had happened then, I would've learned sooner that the guy that got me
started on DR was full of it when he talked about how the game/rules worked.
It would've been good for me. "What I did" isn't really important, but it's
nothing I would banish anyone for.]
Emrys says: There is quite a lot of tolerance, frankly.
Emrys says: Sitting aorund busting everyone for every little quest hint would
suck.
Chaosmonger says: a lot
Shamgar nods.
Emrys says: Peopel get busted for mailing full solutions to people.
Chaosmonger says: hints != solutions
Wierdo says: true
Emrys says: LEading people through quests.
Emrys says: etc
Reflection says: quest info in punishments log should be more specific then
punishments
Annex says: Without actually giving away that info. :)
Reflection grins evilly.
Annex says: But that's a good idea.
Wierdo says: well, is wizards required to quest?
Emrys says: Well I don't like to give all away there cause I get nervous
saying hat people did, for their sake.
Emrys lags helplessly.
Emrys lags helplessly.
Emrys lags helplessly.
Reflection says: or what quest cheatigng is exactly
Emrys says: But the ones there, where it says quest solutions, that's what it
means.
Reflection says: because according to the rules, any quest help is illegal
Emrys says: Raxon doesn't say quest solutions, I could get more specific with
that...he was obviosuly following quest solutions from a list.
Emrys says: Yes, it is.
Reflection says: which is extremely rigid
Wierdo tries to ponder the situation but would rather fight something.
Emrys says: But what hapens to you if you share info depends a lot on what the
info is.
Emrys says: etc.
Sabastian arrives.
Sabastian waves at Emrys, Eimher, Chaosmonger, Raston, Wierdo, Annex, Luggage,
Galeck, Reshia, Reflection and Shamgar.
Chaosmonger says: and if you've been in trouble before
Sabastian leaves west.
Wierdo says: well, nice talking, but Me think meeting is pretty much done?
Wierdo peers quizzically at Emrys, Eimher, Chaosmonger, Raston, Annex, Luggage,
Galeck, Reshia, Reflection and Shamgar.
Emrys waves at Wierdo.
Reflection says: a lot of whether you have been in trouble before is
whether you have been watched or not :)
Reflection says: there is no real objectivity to it
Chaosmonger says: certainly
Wierdo hugs you.
Wierdo hugs Emrys, Eimher, Chaosmonger, Raston, Annex, Luggage, Galeck, Reshia,
Reflection and Shamgar.
Chaosmonger says: well, not necessarily watched, but caught
Emrys says: And a lot of whether you have been watched or not is if you did
things to make there be reason to be.
Eimher waves at Wierdo.
Shamgar says: I would probably substitute watched with attracting attention
Emrys says: No objectivitiy, this is thie thing I was wanting...examples?
Wierdo leaves west.
Reflection says: I would venture to bet that most players have given and
received quest help at one time or another, I certainly have
Cricket hops in hoping not to disturb anyone.
Reflection says: so those players who are watched the most are those most
likely to be caught
Chaosmonger says: so do you suggest we snoop all players?
Emrys says: No, they are those that have set off 'red flags'.
Shamgar shudders.
Emrys says: Probable cause.
Annex says: Ooh, when I wiz, can I be the "bad cop"? :)
Shamgar lafs.
Emrys says: Examples from 'punishments': Raxon did several quests much too
fast to be possible, and then when I asked him about it, he said he'd
worked on them for a long time, when we knew he hadn't.
Reflection says: not at all, but just keep in mind that just because a
player has been marked with a red flag, doesnt mean they are committing
more offenses than other players, just that they are getting caught more
often
Emrys says: Same with Nimrod, except when asked he admitted it.
Reflection says: ok, an analogy, but first I need to go afk
Emrys says: Well, that's not quite what I meant by a red flag.
Sabastian arrives.
Chaosmonger says: you are right that being caught doesn't mean that they
are doing more/worse things than other players
Cricket tackles Sabastian.
Emrys says: We see who does what quests. Someone does a quest way too fast.
We ask them about it. We do this for anyone that does that.
Sabastian looks drunk.
Chaosmonger says: but as we don't know what others are doing without them
being caught, that doesn't play into the equation at all
Shamgar hehs.
Reflection says: ok, the anology
Shamgar remembers Em asking him about a quest he did in an apparently fast
amount of time once and wonders if that was why.
Emrys says: Yes.
Emrys says: You did a few too fast, but your stories made sense, so.
Shamgar doesn't remember which on eit was.
Reflection says: sociologists have studied drug use and found that the
majority of drug use occurs in the middle class suburbs
Reflection says: but the majority of arrests occur in poor areas, why do
you think that is?
Shamgar hehs.
Chaosmonger says: because the poeple in the poorer areas aren't smart
enough to stay indoors?
Shamgar says: I always thought I was taking /forever/ to do quests. I
thought I was probably one of the worst questers.
Shamgar snickers.
Reflection says: I did a ride along with a police officer for a class and
guesswhere we spent most of our time?
Emrys says: Who is the poor areas in the mud in this analogy?
Shamgar says: guess not entirely.
Reflection says: the ones who are stereotyped as being 'bad players'
Cricket hops around dodging your big feet and leaves.
Emrys says: Keep in mind that in the mud, we have the equivalent of a log of
whenever someone shoots up.
Annex hehs.
Emrys says: Where is the stereotype? I base my concpet of who cheats based on
the people that do cheaet.
Chaosmonger says: so how do people get stereotyped?
Emrys says: People that don't do anything that the code-based traps catch
never get looked at twice by me in the rules regard.
Reflection says: if that is true, you are the minority, because when I have
talked to wizards over and over about standardized offenses, they bring up
player NAMES rather than offenses
Reflection says: and I have heard bashing of certain players on the wiz
channel
Reflection says: and these are often the same players who get 'busted'
Chaosmonger says: what does 'bashing' mean?
Chaosmonger says: are wizards talking about the fact that a certain player
looks like they are wanting to cheat?
Chaosmonger says: or are they just talking about how they don't the player?
Reflection says: dislike of a player
Reflection says: and these are the ones who are often busted
Emrys says: Players taht have broken rules before are watched in ways those
that haven't aren't, til it is obvious they aren't doing it anymore... is
this what you mean by stereotyping?
Emrys says: Well that's not true necessarily.
Shamgar says: well, I guess I can see what she means.
Reflection thanks Shamgar.
Emrys says: I don't assume someone that has quest cheated will again.
Chaosmonger says: and maybe the dislike stems from the person cheating or
abusing the game in some way
Emrys says: It really comes in mostly with if they do something to get
punished again.
Shamgar says: players that get on and do typical newbie behavior to a
greater degree than others (shouting a lot, whatever) tend to get watched
more I think.
Shamgar says: and they also are the ones that annoy wizards more.
Emrys says: If they have been busted before, and get busted again, it may be
harder on them.
Shamgar says: but I think the issue there isn't so much stereotyping as it
is visibility
Reflection says: this doesnt mean they are less desirable players, it just
means that hte wizards just happen to have been annoyed by them
Shamgar says: you see them more often so you are more likely to notice
their names in the logs.
Shamgar nods at Reflection.
Chaosmonger says: yea, visibility is one of the main keys i think
Chaosmonger says: true
Emrys says: From my perspective, players that shout like that almost
universaly generate complaints from players about harassment.
Emrys says: This doesn't mean I watch all of them when they shout.
Chaosmonger says: we aren't disussing the 'desirability' of players
Emrys says: It means if they generate complaints about harassment, I have to
keep an eye on them.
Shamgar says: players that keep quiet don't get noticed as much. you don't
see them as a wiz really unless you do a who. but if you shout a lot your
name is in front of them all the time.
Reflection says: from my perspective, AANY player who is loyal to the game
is a valuable player
Reflection says: and should be treated in that fashion
Reflection says: unless they are doing something to harm the game
Emrys says: shamgar, that's not as true as you may think
Emrys says: the logs don't care who you are
Chaosmonger says: what does 'harm the game' mean?
Shamgar says: I'm speaking entirely for myself
Reflection says: this includes not stererotyping them for bcloser
inspection
Shamgar says: a player whose name I see a lot stands out to me metally in
the logs.
Shamgar says: people I don't know I don't notice as much.
Shamgar says: but I actually read them. I don't have code traps or
anything
Shamgar says: so I speak only for myself.
Emrys says: reflection, as I'm saying, I don't think it's that people that are
loud get watched more. people that are loud that also generate complaints
about harassment get watched more.
Reflection says: thank you for your honesty and openness shamgar
Reflection says: I think that is just natural for most people
Shamgar says: but that isn't just people who shout or annoy me.
Shamgar says: I notice em's name and my own and people who just wistl on
the barb channel a lot.
Shamgar shrugs helplessly.
Emrys says: When I read logs I notice patterns mostly...but I've been doing
this for a long time.
Shamgar nods.
Emrys says: foo gave 10000000000000000000000 coins to bar
Shamgar says: I'm still new at it.
Shamgar grins evilly.
Emrys says: foo did quest a
Shamgar says: yeah that stand sout more than names
Emrys says: foo did quest b
Emrys says: foo did quest c
Emrys says: foo did quest d
Emrys says: foo did quest e
Emrys says: foo did quest f
Emrys says: foo is 1 hour and did quest worht 50 pts and isnt' a second
Reflection says: and I heard at least one admin talk about 'hating' players
who cheat, so if someone has made some sort of rule infraction, this sets
them up for hatred by an admin? No, I think the admin need to be objective
regardless of who they are dealing with
Emrys says: I'd agree.
Reflection says: because technically, really, most of us are cheaters
Reflection says: including you and me Jeremy
Chaosmonger says: i agree also
Emrys says: you're saying admin should be objective, and should take thigns
into consideration, and should be fair, etc. I agree. My question again
would be examples where we aren't being that way.
Reflection says: grog hates hyrl with a passion
Emrys says: That's why Grog isn't in charge of rules.
Reflection says: he has said so many times in many formats
Emrys says: I am.
Chaosmonger says: and grog isn't an admin
Reflection says: I have also heard goshawk ridiculed
Chaosmonger says: technically
Reflection says: when he didnt deserve it
Annex says: Technically?
Reflection says: I think it is more than coincidence that these people are
those who are busted more often
Emrys says: admin means 90 things on this mud, at least
Chaosmonger says: depends on your definition of the word
Reflection says: who is your question directed to annex?
Annex says: Oh.
Chaosmonger says: and i'm not sure of Ref's usage
Annex points at Chaosmonger.
Reflection says: ok
Emrys says: it means level 60+, it means ratik and me and G's, it means G's
Reflection says: it also means committee members who have a say in things
Reflection says: esp rules and regs
Emrys says: grog is authorized to keep an eye out for cheaters and deal with
harassment if he has to and one of us isn't around to
Reflection says: QC isnt going to interact with players except to get info
about what to fix
Emrys says: erm
Annex says: What does that heave to do with this?
Annex says: s/heave/have
Emrys says: QC is responsible for hearing from players abot all kinds of stuff
like what areas should have and stuff.
Reflection says: yup, but they wont be punishing players
Chaosmonger says: and don't
Reflection says: so I am more focused on rules and regs
Reflection says: which shouldnt have members who cannot be objective about
all players
Reflection says: imo
Shamgar says: I know grog has been hard on hyrl in the past, but I don't
think he hates him. certainly not with a passion. I don't think his
attention span is big enough to hate someone witha passion. kind of
requires a long term commitment.
Shamgar grins evilly.
Annex hehs.
Annex says: Is there a rules and regs committee?
Shamgar says: And I think as time passes he has been lightening up in that
regard.
Chaosmonger says: i would agree with you
Emrys says: Grog's also hard on a lot of people. Yet I've seen him spend
around an hour talking to Hyrl about real life things.
Reflection says: yes, another good point, players should know who is in
charge of what :)
Emrys says: $rules is me/galeck/grog
Shamgar nods at Emrys.
Reflection says: I think that would be one of the instances where Hyrl was
commenting about people acting as friends but not really being a friend
Chaosmonger says: talking to someone doesn't make you a friend or not
Chaosmonger shrugs helplessly.
Reflection says: well, when one puts on a friendly face, it's hard to make
that distinction
Reflection says: whether they mean it to be in a capacity of friendship or
if it is just a whim for the moment
Shamgar hrms.
Emrys says: To change the angle on this slightly...would it suprise you to
know that since Hyrl was one of those shouting kids and gets a lot of flack
from people, I make it a point to really know him as well as I can, and
that in turn may actually get him lighter punishments, since I know him and
can better judge what he did in line with his regular conduct?
Shamgar says: not necessarily
Shamgar says: I talk to people at work a lot and that doesn't mean we are
friends. even if we talk about non-work issues
Shamgar says: it doesn't even necessarily mean I like them.
Emrys says: Would it suprise you to know that when Goshawk broke the rules and
used 3 of his chars to help each other, and by the rules should have been
banished all 3, I was the one that got him just Goshwak banished, and that
not permanently, based on his past positive action (not just negative)?
Sabastian agrees wholeheartedly with Shamgar.
Reflection says: I also have gotten to know him, and I know he is a great
kid who doesnt deserve to be thougth of as a 'bad player' or hated
Shamgar says: it's calle dbeing polite
Shamgar nods at Reflection.
Emrys says: I do'nt hate him.
Shamgar would pretty much agree with that assesment.
Emrys says: I don't hate anyone I can think of around here.
Reflection says: I am referring to grog right now
Emrys says: Grog answers to me.
Emrys says: He has no ability to actually see more about palyers' activity
than you do.
Emrys says: I know he's a loose cannon at times, and I've restricted what he's
allowed to do, and I'm working with him the same way I work with Hyrl.
Emrys says: He's not on $rules in a similar capacity to me or Galeck.
Emrys says: He's there to deal with the person that logs on and shouts 'fuck
you allllllllllll bitches' or who wont' stop fondling a female player, if
we aren't around, by throwing them in jail.
Emrys says: Excuse my french, but that's the kind of thing i'm talking about
that happens.
Emrys says: He also is anothe rpair of eyes, which is where this started.
Reshia says: ah
Shamgar says: or to beat the hell out of someone who starts the
"WAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZUP" thing going?
Shamgar snickers.
Emrys says: I make it a point to know him well enough to know what to follow
up on.
Emrys says: I dont follow up on everything he says.
Emrys says: And he's learning.
Reflection says: I think you are giving yourself the credit for being able
to judge all and know all :)
*Sabastian wonders what's been "logged" on him.
Eimher says: Me think mostly wizards start WAZZZUP thing
Sabastian whistles appreciatively.
Eimher grins evilly.
Emrys shakes your head.
Shamgar hehs.
Shamgar says: so
Emrys says: If he does something, let me know :)
Emrys says: I'll demote his ass :)
Shamgar says: wizards should be beaten for that too
Shamgar snickers.
Reflection says: if he messes with Hyrl again, you bet I will
Emrys says: But so far you're saying you think he pays more attention to eg
Hyrl, and I'm saying he doesn't have power to abuse in that regard
Emrys says: at his level
Annex says: Em, you're saying that Grog only has the power to watch and
refer to you, not to actually punish, right?
Emrys says: I really want to know who did that to you Reshia.
Reflection says: and you are asking me to believe that his input regarding
hyrl hs nothing to do with the attention hyrl gets
Emrys hehs.
*Reshia wonders the same thing sabastian wonders. about herself
Chaosmonger says: heh
Emrys says: "watch" in the loosest sense
Emrys says: in the same sense any wiz can
Shamgar thinks he remembers the incident.
Annex says: Okay, sure.
Chaosmonger says: hyrl brings attention on himslef very well
Emrys says: ie he can't snoop
Annex says: Ah.
Reflection says: doesnt mean he is a bad player chaos
Chaosmonger says: i didn't say he was
Reshia says: if me remember ill tell you ... me know kneel did something
to me day but im no sure if thing was same thing.... me think they were
seperate incidents
Emrys says: Ref, I'm actually asking you to believe that more people not
liking Hyrl makes me stand up for him more :)
Emrys says: People that aren't well liked need advocates.
Reshia says: can you tell me if ive been flagged for anything?
Chaosmonger says: but you said: and you are asking me to believe that his
input regarding
Eimher says: Kneel tends to boot-to-the-head people
Shamgar says: I'm pretty sure kneel has some kind of boot atmo thing.
Chaosmonger says: hyrl hs nothing to do with the attention hyrl gets
Chaosmonger says: and i was responding
Eimher says: but doesn't actually do anything bad to them, just annoys them
Shamgar says: but I wasn't aware it did anything with hp.
Emrys says: It's my job to make sure $rules stays objective, this is an idea
of how I do it.
Emrys says: I didn't know that boot took hp.
Reflection says: you response didnt assure me otherwise
Eimher says: boot does take hp?
Reshia says: me think me might has been hit by critter at same time for
matter. im no sure.
Annex says: AFAIK, the boot doesn't... but it is somewhat unfriendly,
especially when you have no idea who it's from or why you're getting it.
Reshia says: boot me and us can see.
Emrys says: This is what I'm hearing from her, I'll look it up later.
Reflection giggles inanely.
Chaosmonger says: i don't need to assure you of whether or not i like
someone
Raston says: boot does not take HP - I've read the code...
Shamgar thought he looked when it happened and it didn't.
Emrys says: You're main point has been does Hyrl get watched more.
Emrys says: Hyrl has been punished one time.
Chaosmonger says: and i haven't payed attention to him enough to know if he
is a bad player or not
Emrys says: Well, aside from warnings to chill out with the shouting.
Emrys says: And to watch himself on the quest helpig...
Reshia says: thing may has been too many things at once yo know. or
someone could has altered it. nother mud me play me know one similar thing
can be altered for who thing hit.
Galeck rejoined the game.
Emrys says: but anyway, the one time he was punished, multiple people reported
it to me, cause he did it in front of wizards
Emrys says: in the alch garden
Galeck smiles happily.
Reflection says: so his first punishment was banishment?
Galeck says: I'm back
Annex smiles happily at Galeck.
Emrys says: his first offfense past warnings was a banishable one, yes, it was
banishment
Shamgar says: he had been warned about having more than one char on at a
time by 3 wizards only days before (I was one of them).
Emrys says: since then he got in trouble one time
Emrys says: let off the hook by me
Reflection says: but no other punishment was tried
Emrys says: the incident was reported by unk
Sabastian says: Is quest cheating immediate banishment or is there a
warning first?
Emrys says: we're talkng about grog right now
Emrys says: we can go to the other one later if you want
Emrys says: i'd rather finish this one first
Sabastian says: Sorry, just had a question.
Emrys says: no, I meant Ref...Sabastian it depends on the nature of the
cheating
Emrys says: so, to summ...Grog/Hyrl, Hyrl's incidents haven't come from Grog,
so...
Emrys says: and it depends on if they fess up or not
Emrys says: (to sabastian)
Sabastian nods.
Sabastian says: So, if they cheat and fess up, they may not get banished,
just punished some other way?
Sabastian says: Interesting.
Emrys wonders if Sabastian has somethign to say. ;)
Chaosmonger wraps his cloak around himself and disappears.
Sabastian laughs out loud.
Wick arrives in a puff of smoke.
Eimher waves at Wick.
Reflection claps her hands.
Reflection hugs Wick.
Sabastian says: I was just thinking of a particular wizard that was
banished immediately upon wizzing...w/o a warning
Sabastian says: That's all
Sabastian says: BUT...
Sabastian says: I don't know all the details so i can't really speak
intelligently about it.
Emrys says: The particular wizard lied to me about it for an hour. I couldn't
trust him as a wizard to not give out info.
Annex says: We already covered that one. :)
Emrys says: At least an hour, I think it was longer.
Sabastian says: Sorry, Annex...got here late.
Sabastian smiles happily.
Emrys says: I really wanted him to give me other options.
Annex says: I know... just bugging you. ;)
Sabastian nods at Emrys.
Annex winks playfully at Sabastian.
Emrys says: If the particular wizard wanted to give me other options now I'd
still consider them.
Sabastian says: it's just a shame...he would have made a great wiz.
Sabastian says: At least he did on other MUD's.
Emrys nods.
Emrys says: Someone cheats to wiz, and lies about it... I talk to people all I
can but it takes two of us to talk about it.
Sabastian says: Okay...sorry to get off on that tangent.
*Reshia wonders if the subject of that might be someone she knows....
Emrys says: I mean, I don't know what he's said about it, but basically I
asked him to explain what I was seeing and we spent an hour or two at "can
you explain this?" "that didn't happen". It was rather frustrating.
Galeck says: would you guys mind if I spoke about quest cheating for a sec?
or would you rather Emrys just do the speaking?
Sabastian says: "That didn't happen" ? really? Wow
Galeck says: I don't mind either way
Emrys says: At that point I know I've got a new wiz who will be able to read
more quest info and doesn't tell me the truth at all and apparently thinks
following quest solutions is swell.
Sabastian says: That's kind of a stupid answer..."That didnt happen".
Annex says: I'd like to hear your piece, Galeck.
Emrys says: well, it was more 'how did you solve x part in 7 minutes' to which
i got 'i worked on it for a logn time...'
Emrys says: 'looked at all the things'....
Galeck says: I worked hard on building 2 quests, one of them took over a
year to write
Spencer arrives from the depths of chaos.
Emrys says: 'worked on it wiith my other character'
Galeck says: I spent hours and had 5 or 6 wizzes look at my stuff before it
went in
Emrys says: 'no, you didn't actually'
Emrys says: repeat
Sabastian nods.
Galeck says: I wanted to make a quality quest that could be solved if
people worked at it hard enough
Galeck says: because I hate crappy quests
Galeck says: then to have someone come in and solve it in under an hour and
then lie about it is sort of a slap in the face to me
Galeck says: and all that work
Emrys says: heh
Galeck says: and to others
Galeck says: who put in the time
Galeck says: to solve it
Sabastian says: Sure, I see your point.
Emrys says: and when I caught one of the guys gving out the info, his response
was "dude a lot of those quests suck, they are impossible to solve without
help"
Galeck says: the quest points get dropped because it's 'too easy'
Emrys says: we're talking about an event where the guy that followed his
solution couldnt' remember the area at all. we were not talking about an
'impossible quest'.
Sabastian says: It's kind o flike when I had Sabastian when this MUD first
started, then was "purged" because I didn't play it. I come back on and
instead of level 19, I have to start over.
Galeck says: and I have been working INCREDIBLY hard to get rid of crappy
quests
Sabastian nods at Galeck.
Reflection comforts Sabastian.
Emrys says: Galeck has done every quest the long way to find the ones that
need fixing.
Galeck says: I and a number of others
Annex says: Plus, when wizards change their quests to thwart cheating, it
means that players who do the quests honestly get screwed in the end when
they try to re-do the quest with another char and then have to re-solve it.
Emrys nods.
Sabastian nods at Annex.
Galeck says: been there done that a NUMBER of times
Emrys says: To reiterate what we said before, since you weren't all here...
there are other solutions to players that don't wanwt to quest.
Galeck says: as one of the primary quest inspectors
Galeck says: exactly
Emrys says: Giving out the info is lazy and doesnt' help people in the end.
Emrys says: Galeck here isn't sure he wants to bother fixing his quest or
coding more of them.
Emrys says: And why should he?
Annex says: And in the case of Unk's Death quest, he had to change it
because of cheaters, and now it's gone because the changes made less sense.
All my future chars are out 50 qp that they'll never have because some
jerks decided to pass out the solution like candy.
Emrys says: And I'm sure he's lost motivation to fix the bad ones too.
Galeck says: I love coding, but why should _I_ put in the effort if it's
gonna get treated like that? and there are other wizzes who feel the same
way
Reflection says: I dont think it had to be changed, in fact, I think that
sort of lets the cheaters win...I feel cheated that I am not going to be
able to try to solve Unks original Death quest and I know he was quite
pleased with it, which prolly means it was a raeally fun quest
Galeck says: and I love questing... some of my best memories were working
with Kitty on Unk's quests.
Reflection says: I think questing should be a social even, personally
Reflection says: event
Galeck says: and they can be
Galeck says: if done properly
Reflection says: most bore me otherwise
Galeck says: anyway, we're going on a non-Emrys tangent again, aren't we
Galeck grins evilly.
Galeck says: sorry
Annex says: Whatever. :)
Galeck says: just wanted to get my 2 cents in
Emrys says: Should we have a case study?
Galeck says: explain for the dumb barbarian wizard, please
Galeck winks suggestively.
Emrys says: Sabastian, you did Galeck's quest in one hour, and you got it all
right the first time. I'd like to know how you would account for that.
Annex says: Fair enough... you should have been here earlier when I asked
Em for his response to people who say "let people cheat... as long as they
have fun and the mud grows".
Nietzsche arrives with an ear-splitting bang.
Annex points at Galeck.
Nietzsche says: still at it, eh?
Emrys says: I'm busting Sabastian now, it'll be interesting.
Emrys says: You did Galeck2 in 10 minutes.
Sabastian says: Wel'Yes, Emrys is busting me....this will be fun. Everyone
listen.
Galeck waves.
Galeck hoists himself up on his hippogriff and rides home.
*Annex hears the theme from "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly".
Emrys says: This is the part where if you did what it looks like, you should
really admit it and tell me who gave you the info.
Sabastian says: Galecks quest was posted on a website. It was not given to
me by another wiz or any other char..AND I never furnished WHERE the
website was to anyoeneelse
Emrys says: If you didn't, you tell me what really happened, and hope it
involved aliens and time travel, because these logs...
*Sabastian awaits banishment.
Emrys says: Where is the website?
Annex says: Is this a real bust like they have on COPS, or am I seeing a
re-enactment?
Sabastian says: I have no idea now..it was posted from some guy who HATES
DR because of past problems...
Emrys says: This is the part where I confirm your story.
Sabastian says: No, this is real.
*Annex feels a bit surreal right now.
Sabastian says: I never went back to the website.
Reflection comforts Annex.
Sabastian says: Some guy had it out for DR and posted a ton of quests on
there.
Sabastian shrugs helplessly.
Annex says: Woah... this is heavy.
Eimher says: like dragnet, but names aren't made up
Emrys says: The one people know of like that doen't contain Galeck's quest.
Annex hehs at Eimher.
Emrys says: Unless it is in a non-public area.
Reshia fears!
Sabastian says: This guy went on and on during his website about even legal
problems with DR and the host of his ISP...
Emrys says: That really sounds like Bigk's site, but galeck's quest isnt
there.
Sabastian says: That's really all I can remember...again, I never went
back, so I don't know verymuch...this was severla months ago
Emrys says: I'm not not believing you.
Annex blinks at Emrys.
Emrys says: I would like to know where it is though.
Galeck rides in on the biggest winged hippogriff you've ever seen.
Galeck smiles happily.
Sabastian says: Sorry, Em. I really can't remember...it's been a while and
i've slept since then.
Reshia says: yeah.... me would like tho know who would dislike dr...
Wick says: i am searching for it now on the web
Nietzsche says: i already did. no relevant hits...
Emrys raises an eyebrow at Annex.
Emrys lags helplessly.
Wick says: there are alot of ways to search
Emrys says: Bigk has the main page out there.
Annex says: Emrys says: I'm not not believing you.
Annex says: That's when I blinked at you, Em.
Reflection agrees wholeheartedly with Annex.
Luggage says: I've searched for DR, Darker Realms, etc., and *never* found
any hints on the web :(
Sabastian says: I hope Em was saying that he *IS* believing me with that
double negative, Annex.
Emrys says: Well Sabastian, you win 100 more qp on your requirement. That's
the 45 you cheated for, x2, plus some change.
Sabastian raises an eyebrow and hopes.
Eimher raises an eyebrow at Luggage.
Eimher grins evilly.
Emrys says: This wont' affect you at all really if you don't die.
Sabastian says: Thanks, Emrys.
Nietzsche says: ok ,i give up. how would dying make any difference?
Wick says: there is one with a postscript file of quests, but it sems to
have moved or is donw now
Emrys says: For the curious, if he had lied, he'd have gotten zapped as well.
Emrys says: At least.
Annex says: Ouch.
Emrys says: Raising QP affects advancement
Emrys says: but not for eternals
Emrys says: (yet)
Wick says: could be anything though
Nietzsche says: ic. sabastian has a LOT of xp
Nietzsche grins evilly.
Sabastian snickers.
Emrys says: Wasn't that fun?
Sabastian says: Well, and this may be lame, but I really felt cheated when
I got "purged"
Nietzsche says: ok, what else did i miss?
Emrys says: That was the same conversation I had with Nimrod btw.
Reshia has disconnected.
Emrys says: Same penalty.
Reflection says: I dont blame you Sabastian
Reshia rejoined the game.
Sabastian says: And I never planned on wizzing...just wantedt o go on
minding my own business...
Sabastian says: Killing stuff.
Sabastian smiles happily.
Reshia says: me hate thing when happens.... grr
Emrys says: I don't blame you either, and I think it's dumb to purge people
past a certain level.
Reshia says: had to reboot puter
Emrys says: We dont' do it anymore that I'm aware of.
Galeck agrees wholeheartedly with you.
Galeck nods.
Emrys says: If we had records of past purges like we should, I'd be for
unpurging.
Sabastian nods.
Emrys says: But without that not much I can do for it :(
Galeck says: and I, of all people, understand wanting to cheat on quests
Emrys says: Except offer to help you kill, but at your level you're past that
Galeck says: I was here during the really poor quests in 94 and 95
Sabastian says: Yeah, same thing Lucifer said. Couldn't help me.
Sabastian says: Galeck, I was here in '91 and '92
Sabastian snickers.
Galeck nods.
Galeck says: so you REALLY understand
Galeck grins evilly.
Sabastian nods.
Sabastian says: Ohhhh yeah.
Sabastian says: We used to have to get 5 or 6 greater necs to kill sharon
for luci's quest
Sabastian snickers.
Annex laughs.
Galeck grins evilly.
Sabastian says: Uhhhh for anyone that has not solved that quest in here,
you didn't hear anything.
Emrys says: Wick did you have anything to ask?
Emrys laughs.
Eimher throws her head back and cackles with glee.
Emrys says: Or Spencer?
Eimher rolls on the floor laughing.
Sabastian hehs.
Emrys says: main topic is things I've done that were bad and examples
Spencer says: not me.
Annex says: You don't play enough poker!
Galeck says: hmm... I don't see Luci on the quest list... must have been
eliminated...
Emrys says: you can 'ask' with the box to be anonymous
Annex hehs.
Nietzsche pokes Annex in the ribs.
Emrys says: but since you're new to the room you might not fool everyone ;)
Nietzsche screams and pulls his hair out at the thought of even one more
hand.
Emrys says: who? me?
Emrys says: (poker)
Nietzsche says: poker
Annex nods playfully at Emrys.
Emrys hehs.
Emrys says: yeah not much for those
Emrys says: i enjoy coding
Emrys says: that's most of waht i do
Nietzsche says: coding, idling, typing with feet...
Galeck says: since no one is asking OTHER questions, did everyone get
knocked off earlier? just wanted to know if it was local or global...
Emrys says: I never idle!
Galeck says: around 6:30 or so
Nietzsche says: oh sure. i really believe you have spent 1 year, 111 days
of productive time
Emrys says: not me galeck
Annex says: Nor I, Galeck.
Nietzsche smiles happily at Emrys.
Wick says: sorry i was idle
Reshia says: me dont mean to if me do...
Galeck says: odd... I couldn't log back on to DR for 15 minutes or so...
that's when I gave up for a few hours and did real life things
Raston says: my isp kicked it on me about that time, but not here
Galeck fears!
Reflection says: did you have things to bring up Wick?
Nietzsche says: were there any on-topic questions?
Sabastian nods.
Wick says: Well a friend of mines char got banished and if he was here i
would support his point of view. but hes not so i dont have the info
enough to do anything
Emrys hehs.
Nietzsche says: who wrote that anyway? hades? i miss it
Galeck says: to bring me up to speed, has it pretty much been established
that the rules are primarily the 'problem' for people, and it's not Emrys?
that's my question
Sabastian says: Well, thanks for the in depth discussion....I'm off to
finish my footall game.
Sabastian waves at Emrys, Reshia, Galeck, Nietzsche, Spencer, Wick, Eimher,
Raston, Annex, Luggage, Reflection and Shamgar.
Sabastian leaves west.
Wick says: personaly i like a more relaxed feel.
Reshia nods.
Annex says: I don't even think the rules are a problem, Galeck, let alone
Emrys.
Reflection says: I think both the rules and the enforcement of them are a
problem
Emrys says: Wick if you want to tel us who I can tell you what I can but you
certainly arent' obligated to.
Galeck says: but it's NOT Emrys' enforcement and abuse, it's the nature of
rules and disagreement on how they should be handled
Wick says: Urthstripe hes a good player I think, but almost quit the mud
when he was banished. could you not have just docked him points or
something?
Reflection listens to Wick.
Emrys says: Well, Urthstripe.
Wick says: He didnt give me all the facts so i cant really argue for him
Galeck says: want me to speak about Urth, Em?
Emrys says: Urthstripe did a quest for someone.
Emrys says: He did the entire quest and gave them the thing to do the end.
Wick says: which?
Emrys says: We asked the other person, and they told us he just found out they
were doing the quest, told them to drop their stuff, and then gave them the
thing.
Emrys says: Ghigwynn.
Wick nods.
Emrys says: So we asked him about it.
Emrys says: Anyway, he denied it, said he helped them kill only, later on his
story became I guess that he thought it was someone that had done it
before, etc.
[Em: If this isn't clear enough, the information I'm referring to indicated
this story of his wasn't true.]
Wick nods.
Wick says: so the problem becomes the other person
Emrys says: Again, if he'd talked to us about what really went on, it might
have been different.
Galeck says: quest 30
Emrys says: He'd been warned before, shoutcursed, etc.
Emrys says: Galeck works at his school and has talked to all of them multiple
times about the rules.
Annex says: Wick, why is the problem the other person?
Emrys says: That's one I really hated... I lost sleep over it, whether you
believe me or not.
Wick says: which is worse, acception or offering and how do you punish
both?
Galeck says: I got them all started
Emrys says: that was personal for me and galeck both
Galeck nods.
Emrys says: in that we hated doing it
Wick nods.
Emrys says: giving info is worse, many times accepting is passive
Reflection says: was the student punished too?
Luggage leaves west.
Wick says: hard to close your ears
Emrys says: giving info is worse depending on the amount of the info
Galeck says: game is game, rl is rl
Galeck says: and never the twain shall meet
Galeck says: I've helped urthwyte rebuild his char
Reflection says: we are all real people here
Emrys says: you mean punished in rl? urtstripe is the student
Reflection says: I see.
Galeck says: you can feel free to talk to him
Wick says: its all just a game to me. I think we need jails and community
service. grin
Galeck says: I've been his best help/friend on this game
Emrys says: I gave him the concessions I could..told him it might not be
permanent, but I'll hae to see on that, I can't play favorites
Wick nods.
Emrys says: I don't know if this is helpful at all.
Wick says: the problem is that its aonly the nice people who get hurt by
the quist cheating thing
Galeck says: he and I have talked in person and I'm helping him however
possible... he understands what happened
Wick says: if the person is an anti-social jerko they dont feel tempted
Nietzsche says: what makes you think that, wick?
Galeck grins evilly.
Wick says: to help anyone
Emrys says: heh
Nietzsche says: ah, no wonder i can follow the rules fine... :-)
Emrys says: we've dealt with multiple people that gave out info because they
hated someone on the admin
Galeck agrees wholeheartedly with Nietzsche.
Wick throws her head back and cackles with glee.
Galeck says: the reason no one helps you is because they can't spell your
name right, Niet, and that's why no one tells you anything
Emrys grins evilly.
Nietzsche says: that is very true...
Annex says: Wick, I have helped and continue to help lots of people, but
I've never been busted for anything because the help I give is legal. :)
Nietzsche says: it took me weeks as a newbie before anyone spoke to me
Reshia says: im gonna go say is thing just me or do females seem to get
more help on muds?
Annex says: I wouldn't know, Reshia. :)
Galeck says: they do...
Wick says: of course they do
Reflection says: actually I help more males than females :) females
generally want to be helped by males :)
Nietzsche says: i have heard notions that people have considered making
female chars so that people will "help" them with quests...
Galeck says: I have friends who made 'female' chars and all of a sudden
everyone's there to help them
Wick says: but you have to be smarter than me and pick a name people will
realize is female before you reach level 19
Annex giggles inanely.
Galeck throws his head back and cackles with glee.
Galeck nods.
Emrys says: yes, muds are ...interesring... social environments
Wick says: or wiz and everyone is saying: wait! did you get hit with a
reverse gender spell?
Galeck grins evilly.
Annex says: Hey, a number of people thought that Wyndalen was female, but I
never got much help unless I asked for it... what's up with that?
Nietzsche says: too hard to type
Eimher says: Me just handed baby off to Em...he will be slow typing now
Nietzsche says: kim would be good
Galeck says: I tried to help you, couldn't spell your name, either
Nietzsche giggles inanely.
Annex falls down laughing.
Reshia laughs.
Galeck says: tell win, er wyd, er... oh never mind
Eimher says: especially since he's sitting on mans feet
Annex throws his head back and cackles with glee.
Wick says: soulcatcher doesnt get alot of help when i play her either ( on
other muds )
Nietzsche says: after i wizzed, several friends made aliases just for
talking to me... (this was before reply)
Reshia says: same
Galeck says: and nameexp
Reshia laughs.
Reflection waves.
Emrys says: w did i answer your question at all?
Reflection leaves west.
Wick says: but Hart on the other hand always gets help
Spencer leaves to eternal damnation deep within the earth.
Reshia says: spelling does make difference
Galeck says: any other questions about Urth? or any of his friends, for
that matter... I can answer MOST of those
Wick says: I am sure you know him better than I do
Wick grins evilly.
[after this it just degenerated into a conversation on gender-switching and
names that are too hard to type]